Here You Go Guys - Enjoy Hybrid "Debate" in the UK

Not at all.

Originally it got a bad name because all the Hollywood celebs made out they were 'green' by driving one but then negating any benefit by having a fleet of limos falling behind, having massive houses etc. We also have a strong diesel lobby in Europe (think Germany and France) and they didn't like the competition. It also became popular in America and was thus ridiculed. They get free road tax which petrol heads hate as their Nissan Skyline costs £300 per year etc. Then finally Jeremy Clarkson hates it and thus all 'petrol heads' must agree with him.

The Prius is seem as a statement car driven by weird beards, though hybrids are becoming popular. People like the idea of hybrids, but not the statement they make.

Things are changing now that Mercedes, Porsche, VW etc are now releasing hybrids over here.

 

Oh and the gen2 looks weird!
(It does. No getting away from it )

 

The popularity of Top Gear. Seriously, I think it has a lot to do with it. It's a, justifiably, very popular peak-time programme, but it talks about cars in a way which is irrelevant to most people. They listen to Hammond and Clarkson salivating over horsepower and the epic low time that The Stig can fling a car around the track, and then go out and buy a second-hand Ford based on the colour and the number of cup-holders.

The TG boys are insistent that the Prius is not a "driver's car", which it isn't; and is therefore rubbish, which it also isn't because most people are not "drivers" in the sense that they mean it. Some of the repeated mud flinging that it is a car for "ecomentalists" has stuck, particularly with Daily Mail readers. I think that's probably affected take-up of the Plug-in, though we don't get quite the level of anger that you guys seem to report - probably because we don't have carpool lanes. If PiPs were allowed to use bus lanes, then we'd get the same level of anger...

 

I drive a PiP because it is a damn good car.

 

From watching Top Gear (BBC America carries it in the U.S.), it seems that their sole metric for judging a car is how it performs on a race track. For them, "driver" = "race car driver".

 

I think it's because the PIP costs £31,000 here before the £5k grant. That is madness. There have been calculations that if it isn't overcharged, then the cost of the 15 miles range is about £12,000. No way does it cost an extra £12,000 to provide that.

If the PIP falls to the same relative cost level that it is in the US it might sell, but as it is it's a pup not a PIP.

 

Without tax credit, PiP cost about $5000 more in the U.S. That's based on the price listed on dealers' web site. It would be worth getting it if Toyota throws in more rebates. Without incentives, PiP would never sell except to those die-hard EV fans. Driving 15 miles on EV would only save me about 40 cents a day since I could only charge once a day.

Another issue is that the battery has a limited life. If the battery dies after the warranty expires, I will have to replace it and this time, there may not be any tax incentives to help me out with the cost.

 

jnet your points sound more or less exactly like what I hear from my in-laws about the standard Prius. But when I mention my gas mileage they move on to the really pithy topics like how their hens are laying really well this year.

Hey GrumpyCabbie, "mingers" is a keeper--thanks. It actually describes my dentist (who drives a Mini) even though he's a male.

 

Trust me, before I decided to buy the standard Prius, I did everything that I could trying to talk myself out of it. I tried everything to prove that the Prius is not worth it to me. However, the traveling distance that I put on daily justified the purchase. If I were a low mileage driver, I probably would have gotten a mid-size gas-only car or just stick with my old cars.

 

I have never found any facts that show a limited battery life for the battery, quite the opposite if you look at the experiences of people using the standard hybrid NiMH battery. Is there reason to believe that Toyota would not use the same expertise with the new Li-Ion battery?

Has anybody got evidence the Pip battery might have long-term problems?

 

No.

The PIP is £26,495 after the grant, so would be £31,495 before it.

What I was trying to suggest is that the extra battery to go 15 miles costs £12,000 over the base Prius. Example; the base Prius is £21,845 and that includes a HV battery that goes 1.5 miles. Remove the battery at a cost of £2,000 to replace it with the PIP battery capable of 15 miles, to give the cost of the Prius without any battery. That comes in at £19,500. Very rough calculations indicate that £31,500 - £19,500 = £11,000. So ok, I was a grand out.

It doesn't cost £11,000 extra to make the Prius go an extra 13.5 miles. Therefore Toyota are charging too much for the PIP and hence sales are poor.

 

The Li-ion batteries are not as bomb proof as the NiMH. They're much more fussy and require more management. Saying that, early indications are that they're still quite good and hardy. I doubt we'll see them going to 200k miles+ like SOME Prius do.

 

Why don't you write to Toyota to see if they would give the PiP buyer a 25 year warranty on the battery? My 85 Corrolla is still running even though I sold it a couple of years ago to a guy I worked with. Will the PiP battery last as long as my Corrolla? I don't want to find out unless Toyota backs it up with a free warranty.

 

When making the price comparisons, is that for comparably equipped vehicles? In the U.S., I think the PiP comes essentially equipped like a "loaded" Prius 3.

 

I looked at the Prius+ price by accident. The correct figures show that it is even more overpriced.

 

Yea, PiP comes well equipped. When comparing to a regular Prius, you can't choose the cheapest stripped down model.