CBS News Tonight

In addition are a series of replies I had with the folks at the CR forum:
I am going to resubmit this question in the hopes that someone has an answer.  The newest Prius has higher city mpg than highway for EPA.  This is allegedly because the braking and turning off the engine at lights improves mileage around town. CR shows a more conventional pattern with higher highway than city.  My question is why?  I understand the rational for the EPA.  What is the difference in the CR data?  I have a friend with the older model Prius and he reports better than quoted highway mileage with the cruse control on.  Can anyone explain this to me?

Henry Drygas

We get our figures by driving each car on a series of predetermined local measured courses.  We do a city course, a highway course, and a separate one day fuel economy trip which includes city, highway and rural driving conditions. We use fuel meters spliced into the fuel system to measure fuel used. Each run is timed and controlled. We use multiple drivers for each test. We average the runs for each test and correct for ambient temperature.


From the EPA:


Manufacturers test pre-production prototypes of the new vehicle models and submit the test results to EPA. EPA re-tests about 10% of vehicle models to confirm manufacturer's results. The vehicles are driven by a professional driver under controlled laboratory conditions, on an instrument similar to a treadmill.


You get better mileage with cruise because of the steady well controlled speed that cruise makes possible.
Jerry Josz CR moderator
We got 35 mpg city and 50 mpg highway with the new Prius. Our overall was 44 mpg. I can tell you that our tests are more real world than the EPA figures and that there is always a disparity between our realistic tests and the EPA's. That disparity seems greater with hybrid cars that can be propelled by their electric motor only in small throttle opening situations in city driving.

 

 

hmmm. i will have to check it out. i guess im mostly interested
in the issue where the do the in-depth analysis of the car. I would
be interested in finding out how they got down to 35 mpg.
especially since Motortrend also did an in-depth analysis with
extended driving tests and averaged 48 mpg.

 

Cribbed directly from CR's website:

Highs: Fuel economy, transmission, ride, hatchback versatility.
Lows: Steering feel, multifunction display.

A lot of the Prius's appeal is its 44-mpg overall fuel economy and ultraclean emissions. But it also provides a roomy interior, hatchback versatility, and competitive road manners, making it among the top-scoring cars in this segment. Although relatively small on the outside, the Prius has a long wheelbase and efficient space utilization that give it interior room comparable to that of a midsized car. The unusual control layout and gauge cluster, however, may be confusing to some, and the electric steering lacks feedback. Reliability of the previous model has been excellent.

THE DRIVING EXPERIENCE

The Prius's ride is well controlled and provides good isolation and compliance. The highway ride is steady and composed, but road noise is pronounced on coarse pavement. When starting, the Prius is eerily quiet if powered only by the electric motor. When needed, the gas engine starts automatically, emitting a low-level engine hum. The Prius is not particularly agile and exhibits moderate body lean. However, it was predictable and secure in our emergency-handling tests. Acceleration is similar to that of most four-cylinder models in this class, although the electric motor provides more initial response on takeoff. The vehicle is classified as a Partial Zero Emission Vehicle by the California Air Resources Board. To conserve fuel, the gas engine shuts off when the car comes to a stop, starting automatically when the brake is released. The smooth continuously variable transmission (CVT) is responsive and the dash-mounted shifter is easy to get used to. Braking performance was average, although when stopping there is a faint whine from the car's regenerative braking system, which helps recharge the battery pack. The halogen headlights have good intensity and distance.

INSIDE THE CABIN

Interior fit and finish is very good, and the materials are high quality. The high seating position offers a good forward view, but the two-piece rear window hampers visibility aft. Taller drivers may find the pedals too close. The firm front seats offer good side support, but the lack of height adjustment limits thigh support. The roomy rear seat offers generous leg room for two adults. Head room and thigh support are both sufficient. Access is easy. A center dash-mounted display shows fuel consumption and which power unit is working. Most audio and climate functions are located on the steering wheel, but others, accessible only through the dash display, can be inconvenient to use. Cabin storage space is good. There are two sturdy cup holders, both front and rear. The 60/40-split folding seats expand the cargo area.

SAFETY NOTES

Side-impact air bags housed in the front seatbacks and curtain-style head-protection air bags that extend to protect front and rear outboard passengers are both available as part of the extra-cost Smart Entry and Exit package. They supplement required front air bags and 3-point seatbelts in all of the five seating positions. Upper anchors for the front seatbelts adjust and pivot for improved fit. Front belts are also equipped with pretensioners and force-limiters to reduce belt slack and forces in the event of a crash. All seats have adjustable and locking head restraints, but the rear versions are too low when fully down to sufficiently reduce rearward head travel. Driving with kids: Some rear-facing infant seats may tilt too much in the center rear seat, but should prove secure in the outboard rear seats. Front-facing seats should also prove secure. There are three tether anchor attachment points on the backs of the second-row seats and LATCH anchors in the rear outboard seats. The LATCH anchors are recessed between the cushion and seatback making attaching and detaching LATCH hooks a bit awkward.

RELIABILITY

We expect reliability to be much better than average, according to our latest subscriber survey.

 

We'll see how this works. The test results:


More information

Body styles and prices

Price range Trim lines
4-door hatchback $20,295 -

Safety information

Safety belts:
Pretensioners, front/rear Yes/no
Center-rear 3-point

Air bags:
Occupant sensing system Not available
Side air bags, front/rear Optional/no
Head protection air bags Optional
Accident alert system Not available

Active safety features:
Antilock brakes Standard
Traction control Standard
Stability control Optional
Daytime running lights Not available
Tire pressure monitor Not available

Crash tests:
Gov't front-crash test, driver:
Gov't front-crash test, front passenger:
Gov't side-crash test, driver
Gov't side-crash test, rear passenger
IIHS offset crash test NA

Specifications
Drive wheels
Front
Seating
2 front, 3 rear
Engines available
1.5-liter 4 (76+67 hp)
Transmissions available
CVT
Fuel
Fuel type Regular
EPA city/highway, mpg 60/51
Fuel refill capacity, gal. 11.9
Dimensions and weight
Length, in. 175
Width, in. 68
Wheelbase, in. 106
Curb weight, lb. 2,950
Percent weight, front/rear 59/41
Typical towing ability, lb. NR

Ownership factors

Predicted reliability

Owner satisfaction

Predicted depreciation NA

From the test track

Tested model
2004 4-door hatchback, 1.5-liter Four, CVT
Tires as tested
Goodyear Integrity, size P185/65R15 86S
Acceleration
0-30 mph, sec. 3.7
0-60 mph, sec. 10.5
Quarter mile, sec. 18.1
Quarter mile, mph 78
45-65 mph, sec. 6.4
Braking
Dry pavement, ft. 143
Other findings
Transmission
Routine handling
Emergency handling
Avoidance maneuver
max. speed, mph 50.5
Turning circle, ft. 37
Ground clearance, in. 3.5
Fuel economy
CU's overall mileage, mpg 44
CU's city/highway, mpg 35/50
CU's 150-mile trip, mpg 48
Annual fuel: gal./cost 345/$515
Cruising range, mi. 545
Convenience & comfort
Ride
Noise
Driving position
Access
Controls and displays
Fit and finish
Door top to ground, in. 53.0
Trunk
Luggage capacity 3+1
Max. load, lb. 825
Seating
Front-seat comfort
Front shoulder room, in. 55.0
Front leg room, in. 40.5
Front head room, in. 4.0
Rear-seat comfort
Rear shoulder room, in. 52.5
Rear fore-aft room, in. 30.0
Rear head room, in. 2.0

 

The article publish date was their May 05 issue. My guess would be, that their testing was done during the winter months. As they are located in Connecticut, that would explain the low city mileage figures.

 

thanks for posting the article. the gas mileage figures are not all that low.
considering they most likely used the dealer recommended air pressure and
was driving a new car that had not been broken in, i would think that 48 mpg
on the 150 mile loop is just about right. they dont specify details on the
35mpg for city driving and considering the huge difference from their result
and the EPA estimate i am very surprized that CR didnt investigate deeper or
offer any possible scenarios for the stat.

 

In my correspondence with them I got the idea that they have a set way to drive a car during these tests. Clearly they have a set course for the city driving. I would guess that they ignored the display and drove the car according to their protocol. Most folks I have met who have a Prius adapt their driving to the car to one extent or another. I get the impression that the CR folks are fairly rigid about how they do their testing and the devil take the hindmost. This is appropriate and why I use their information in part when making choices. Thus CR report becomes yet another comparison just like the EPA. The EPA represents a optimized in lab test. Standard conditions temp, etc. The CR report is out in the weather and represents an other reference point but neither are going to reflect my milage or yours. I have a friend who could probably get 15 to 20 m.p.g. in a Prius. You know the type: get in, strap down, and hold on.
Henry Drygas

 

ill be honest with ya, when i first saw the 35 mpg figure,
besides striking me as being the lowest i have seen
anywhere... i wondered how many miles they drove to
come to that conclusion. I am willing to bet that they
didnt use the figures from the cars computer but did the
old pen and paper method and had issues with the
bladder refill and simply were unaware of the problem
because they didnt do multiple fillups.

 

Wrong. CR used an inline fuel meter. Quite accurate, I bet.

35 MPG city is possible for shorter trips in cold weather. Most drivers could boost this to 40 or even 45 with some driving adjustments. Personally, I have never gotten below 45 MPG even on short trips, where I coast to red lights and drive smoothly.

I do think a re-test in the summer would show improvements for the Prius. Can anyone convince CR to do this?

 

Discrepancy in CR Prius MPG report

CBS reported 35 MPG according to Consumer Reports. I'm a CR subscriber and, in the magazine and on their web site, they say the Prius gets 44 MPG. It's also one of their Top Ten picks for 2004.

 

Discrepancy in CR Prius MPG report

CBS reported 35 MPG according to Consumer Reports. I'm a CR subscriber and, in the magazine and on their web site, they say the Prius gets 44 MPG. It's also one of their Top Ten picks for 2004.

 

Dear Consumer Reports

How very sad your report on CBS tonight on the hybrid cars. Boy! You showed them. Your report should do much to dampen hybrid car enthusiasm.

Although I've never gotten any where near as low as the 35 mpg you reported, I've also not reached EPA's 60 mpg yet on any tank of gas. I've filled up six times now and have averaged 47.63 mpg (2,553 miles, 53.64 gallons). This includes 75+ mph freeway driving, frequent stop and go driving in, and driving the foothills where I live.

What's sad is that Consumer Reports put its name on one very slanted news report. I'm going to presume, based on my own driving experience, you made sure to drive in a manner that would provide the worst possible gas mileage in order to prove your point. It's also sad that you never mentioned one word about the fact that, in the stop and go traffic you were involved in, you were spewing out so very much less pollution that the other cars you were sharing the road with.

By the way, your report reminded me of the old saw of the statistition: "Tell me what you want me to prove and I'll prove it for you".

I'm really dissappointed in you folks.

Sincerely,

 

the 44 mpg figure was the what the obtained on their 150 mile trip that includes a mix of city and highway

 

Unfortunately, the guy with the Civic Hybrid getting 32 mpg seems to be quoted everywhere, now on national news. When I rented one at Dulles last June, I got 49 avg including highway and stop and go city. Don't know if his problem is his car or him, I wasn't making a huge effort to get max mpg. In fact, other than the initial few miles, I drove like I always do. I didn't want people getting the mistaken impression a hybrid couldn't get out of its own way.

 

My letter to CBS News (just sent it via their 'contact us' link):

Dear CBS News Executive,

The credibility of your organization took a rather hard hit the other night in your discussion on hybrid cars and how mileage differs significantly from the EPA numbers. Now, that, it itself, is a fair thing to say. But your examples were shamefully 'worst case'.

For instance, the only words said about the 2004 Prius were that the Consumer Reports folks experienced 35 miles per gallon in rush hour traffic as measured by their fuel flow apparatus. It would have been interesting if a comparison had been made with a typical car being driven in that very same manner at the same time. Then, of course, to add to the fairness, a comparison should also have been made on the amount of pollution emitted into the atmosphere by each of the cars (overall, nine to ten Prius cars pollute to about the same degree as a single typical car).

The last four tanks of gas I put in my own 2004 Prius yielded 52.0 MPG, 49.1 MPG, 48.0 MPG, and 50.4 MPG, averaging 49.88 MPG. From what I've read, these numbers are typical Prius MPGs for mixed driving. Now I think these numbers could have been used to present a balanced report that said, "See, the Prius does not get the advertised EPA gas mileage of 55 mpg overall. There's a 5.12 mpg (~10%) difference here." That would be an honest reference.

From what I've learned, Pete Blackshaw, with his "32 mpg" Honda Civic Hybrid (you made him the star of your presentation), has been on a bit of an internet rant about his poor mileage. From what I've read on the internet forums, typical Civic Hybrid owners believe that Pete Blackshaw has a car that has a problem (his mileage is apparently lower than virtually everybody else's). So, why did you pick him to be the Honda Hybrid spokesman?

Do you folks realize that virtually every hybrid owner now listens to ALL that you say with a skeptical ear? (assuming we listen to CBS any more at all). Trust has been lost. Extrapolating that same dishonest format approach through every 'expose' you do, eventually, you're going to lose your total audience.

If you were to take a more responsible approach to news of this sort, you would, after showing the need for the EPA to change its methods, encourage the purchase of these hybrid cars. Speaking for the Prius, it's very functional (especially since Toyota increased its size to midsize and then added on a lift-back door), it gets MUCH better gas mileage than any other midsize car on the road, and it spews out much less pollution than virtually every other car on the road. Imagine the effect on our environment and on our dependence on foreign oil if every car was replaced with a car like this.

Why on earth did you do a report on hybrids that would make people think twice about buying one. Were you influenced by the oil industry (obviously they would not appreciate a 50 mpg car)? Were you influenced by the auto industry (Detroit makes highest profits on large pick-ups and SUVs – They would probably rather not manufacture hybrids at all)? Or was it simply your own perceived need to distort reality in order to present interesting ‘news’?

Thanks for listening,

 

Big article on MSNBC today describing the Ford Escape. Pictures of the controls, steering, etc. Looks like a Prius. Favorable reviews. Rated very good except for towing which is limited to 1000 lbs. Whatshisname