I leased it. I love it. I’ll leave it.

Sounds like you guys want everything. Personally I try to be very happy with whatever I have at the time.

I could foresee 20 mile range or possibly 25,but I would be shocked if the range on the next PiP was over 30.

 

Come on, can't people dream? It's not like they are unhappy with their purchase; they are just saying what they want in their next car.
Nothing wrong with that.

 

Remember if you take the current Prius size and add more batteries, you lose something. Maybe you just lose trunk space. Another choice is to make the car bigger, now you lose mpg in HV. Even if Toyota comes up with some increased efficiencies somehow to make up for it, a regular Prius will have higher mpg. The only way to not lose something is for battery technology to improve or to increase the SOC used (decreasing battery longevity). Batteries are improving around 5-7% a year, at best, on the average so we aren't going to get double the EV range in just a couple of years.

One possible compromise it to decrease the gas tank by another gallon or two and add 25-50% more battery space. Combine this with a few general hybrid improvements that get 2-5 more mpg.

I know everyone (me included) want more EV range. But if you aren't using it almost everyday, completely, then you are just hauling around extra weight, degrading both EV and HV efficiency all the time.

Mike

 

Great post, Mike. You summed up my thoughts very well, especially that last sentence.

 

actually you can add more space without hurting aerodynamics by making the car longer, it's counter-intuitive but you don't have to lose MPGs to get more space.

 

Toyota showed NS4 concept car over a year ago. It is a dedicated PHV so more battery should fit without cargo penalty. They could use the same tricks they did with Prius c to lower center of gravity and retain cargo.

I would even suspect the base NS4 (say 4.4kWh) would have a spare tire. The longer range model (say 8.8kWh) would lose the spare.

PHV components are supposed to shrink in size and weight. I can see the lead acid battery moving back into the hood.

 

Then let's just make the car 3 feet longer and add 50 kwh of battery and more cargo space...for free.

Yes, to a small degree you can add some more length. But you still have to consider the weight. And the handling of the car. Do you change the wheel locations? Do you then need heavier stronger structure between the front/rear wheels. Stronger shocks?
I imagine you can add an inch or two easily. But for this small increment you've now increased costs a lot because the body isn't the same as the regular Prius that has, relatively, huge volumes.

Mike

 

Yes, it'd end up making the PiP a different body than the regular Prius just as the regular Prius is a different body than the Prius C.

Of course if you do this in conjunction with a refresh you can use the new longer body for both the PiP and the new version of the regular Prius.

Weight is the drawback as is cost of redesign, I'm just saying you don't automatically lose cargo space if you choose to make a PiP with a larger battery.

 

Nice report...what strikes me on OP report is the relatively low 10k miles per year (Low carbon footprint is good for environment) but makes it a little harder to justify Prius strictly on economics. In the same age bracket, I am hoping I can justify a future Prius but its harder at the lower mile per year. Of course we have the option to splurge on a car, but I am hoping it makes sense financially too even at 10k miles. But its hard becuase hybrids in demand so the dealer bumps up price, taxman cometh in VA anyways, not to mention hybrid costs more.

 

Why? The car will last more years with fewer miles per year.
Or, if you sell after the same number of years the car will have a higher resale value.

Mike

 

Toyota needs a redesign. Toyota could significantly reduce the weight by substituting steel with carbon fiber composites (like the BMW i3 which is 2700 lbs) or aluminum parts (like the Honda insight which is 1,960 lbs). The new BMW spreads the batteries under the floor.

Lighter plug-in technology would benefit the liftback, which would have better gas mileage. These new materials would cost more initially, but considering the number of liftbacks sold every year, economies of scale should not be too far off into the future.

As I understand it, the plug-in already uses some plastic parts and the spoiler is aluminum.

 

I think Chevy has a 2.0 Volt up their sleeve in a couple of years. Price will be comparable
with the Plug in Prius. Probably a 35-50 mile pure electric range and a three cylinder engine
which would be tuned for about 45 -55 mpg when in gas mode.

The only issue is that if too many people buy a plug in with a range of 35-50 miles on pure
electric the government will find a way to tax you on that electricity you use on public highways. Then
why bother buying a plug in car. State governments have already raised registration rates on hybrid cars
in many states including, I believe, my state of Oregon.

 

Almost 70mpg after a year and a half, and the daily commute is 60 miles. No recharge on the turn-around, but lots of recharging on the freeway. It helped that I had a regular Prius to practice on for 3 years prior to the PHEV. The way you drive the car does add to your mpg. You can "just drive it", and you'll get good result. You just won't get the best results.

 

I think it will still be cheaper to drive in EV. As long as the tax on EV miles is even approximately similar to the gas tax.
In CA, I think the total taxes on a gallon of gas is around 50-60 cents per gallon. For a 25 mpg car that is about 2 cents per mile. On a 50 mpg car that is about 1 cent per mile. At $4/gal a 50 mpg Prius cost 8 cents per mile for fuel. In EV the cost depends on your cost per kwh...but at 10 cents per kwh and 250 wh/m that is only 2.5 cents/mile. 20 cents/kwh you are at 5 cents/mile. Still better, even with the tax added...but not much better.

Mike

 

Well, with tier 4 poised to go to 51¢/kWh around here on 9/1, if the fsck state decides to pile on too, it'll be time to get rid of the Pip. At roughly $50/month (3kWh/day x $0.5/kWh) a month of one charge a day driving - just for the 12-15 miles in EV - won't compete well with petroleum. Plus, it will push me into tier 4 earlier, making all the rest of my electricity that much more expensive.

Bottom line: you can't win.

 

You can't get TOU billing?

Mike

 

That assumes that Solar PV won't get cheap enough or isn't already cheap enough for you to move to a lower tier and/or stop paying the electric company for the power that you need for the car.

I thought solar in southern California was a no brainer now?

 

Just use the PiP as a hybrid, plug in when you have favorable opportunity. IN CA PiP gets you on the HOV as a key incentive.

 

Some of us don't drive this car for purely financial reasons.
Also, if this car pushes you into tier 4 category, you got way bigger things to worry about than some hypothetical taxes on EV miles.