Regeneration query

If you had no choice, I guess you'll have to use regen. That 1 mile difference is not going to break your bank. I think I would rather go the longer route if the hill is too steep on the shorter router. But that's me.

You are stealing. But it's not your fault. The government is allowing it. I consider people on welfare are stealing too, so don't feel too bad, you're not the only one.

 

Hear Hear!

Unless the grade on the shorter route is steep enough to require use of the disc brakes to remain under the speed limit, in which case some of the kinetic energy gets converted into heat, and is wasted.

 

Ken Blake. No need to tell me how great PPi is. The technology is good and I never said anything bad about it. But PPi isn't a good buy if there were no rebates. At the time I was looking, even after the rebate, the value still sucks. But the sales man made it sound so good. If people don't do the math, they could be fooled.

 

Can we avoid polluting another thread containing good technical information with your unfounded opinions please?
You already filled up the buyer beware thread, and started your own thread (which was subsequently deleted) to justify your purchase of the old school Prius. We get that you don't think it's worth it. We disagree. Move on.

 

Oh I see. It seems like if I were cheering with the crowd, that would be OK. But since I'm not, I'm polluting the thread. LOL Ok, I see how this works. Final point before I stop here, let the sales numbers speak for themselves. Toyota sells more Standard Prius than PPI. So whoever is reading this, do the math and don't let the sales man and the people here fool you. The technology is good but that doesn't mean it's good value.

 

Why don't you go on the Nissan Leaf or Tesla forums and tell THEM they made a bad purchase? I suspect you will be met with an even more hostile reception. This subforum is primarily for fellow PiP owners to help each other get the most and best use from the technology that we purchased, and secondarily, for future PiP owners to learn about the platform. Your posts are basically sour grapes that you didn't ante up for the best Prius out there. You MAY eventually convince yourself that you made the right choice, but you will certainly never convince any of us that we made the WRONG one.

 

Whether the choice was right or not right will depend on how much a person could "steal". That's what I learnt from here and I already said that I agree. You people just call it rebates and free charging stations. Regardless on how much one could steal, it is still important to do the math.

 

are you saying that no matter how much or little i pay in taxes, anything i receive either 'free' or 'discounted' by tax dollars is stealing? criminally?

 

We should really stop feeding this troll.

 

Anyone know how to request from the moderator removing those who consistently stay off topic, post only to incite angry responses, are not interested in constructive discussion, post advice on the PiP as expert advice but have little technical or personal knowledge about the PiP but instead spread misinformation and continue to do so when corrected with factual information?

 

This is not the House of Pancakes...take your flame wars over there....and maybe grow up.

I disagree with a lot of the regen advice given here. If you look into the Toyota engineering docs, they attribute approx 1/3 of the Prius' efficiency to the regen system. By bypassing it, you are substituting your hybrid engineering for Toyota's. Maybe that is a good thing, but I will go with theirs for now. If you are on a hill that is long enough to fully charge the battery, then N might (might!) be a good choice. The car does stuff in N that a lot of users are not aware of. The car does recharge in B, even thought there are a lot of posts to the contrary. I can consistently get 65 mpg with my Gen III by using pulse and glide and keeping the battery as low as possible by letting the Hybrid System use it to extend the glide. The only time you are paying to charge the battery is when the engine runs specifically for that purpose (or whatever portion, thereof). The rest of the charging energy would normally be wasted as heat, and is about as low cost as it gets. I also keep in mind that this is the internet....you really need to do your own experimenting and see what works and what is vaporware.

 

Click "Report" button lower left under the offensive post.

 

Mis-information? How so? Telling people that they shouldn't trust sales man nor people on this board is wrong? Why is it wrong that people should do their own math and then find out how little return that PPI would bring? Of course, there are some of you that could steal more than others and that would make PPI a good buy. The sale numbers speak for themselves. Toyota sells a lot more Standard Prius than PPI. In fact, PPI isn't even a car. It's an very expensive feature that yield very little return. You'll have to steal (get others to pay for your expense) in order to make it worthwhile.

 

There's a difference between an informative conversion and butting heads with your opinion. I for one couldn't justify an economic return upgrading from a 2010 Prius especially knowing the 4th gen is around the corner. It was close with the incentives but I just couldn't justify.

Leave it up to people to do their own research and what they want to buy. No need to force your opinion or thoughts onto others. Suggest but don't force. Influence, don't brainwash.

As for the 'stealing?' Did you know the original Prius had people 'stealing' money with government incentives? It's a complex thing that's not just 'stealing' or 'not stealing'. The government is trying to spur innovation and therefor provides an incentive. Could the original prius be where it is today without the incentives? Who knows? But it did help spread the word and spur innovation otherwise we wouldn't be here today. I believe plugins are here to stay and the government is firm with that idea, especially with the thought of solar and wind energy vs fossil fuels.

People used to imagine just driving around a golf cart doing errands around town. Now they can do that in a vehicle. How awesome is that?

 

It turns out driving in neutral is a violation in most states

This topic is covered in a previous thread "living on the top of a hill". By the way driving in neutral is a violation in all but a few states. Turn on the fan the software then allows the battery to charge beyond the typical upper limit. Once the fan is on display will show a drop in EV range (system assumes more power required to condition passenger compartment). As you descend, EV range increases. When get to the bottom and your foot is off the brake you can turn off the fan. I have gotten .2 to .3 est. EV miles descending 300-400 ft on a full battery.

This technique was courtesy of Chesleyn.

 

And.... the "Incentive" aka: Tax Credit is only giving you back the money you have already paid the government. If you haven't paid it, you don't get it back. Not anyone else's money, just the money you would have had to pay in taxes. It's a reduction in the taxes owed, not welfare in any way shape nor manner and it is not stealing! Big oil, dirty coal and many other businesses get exactly the same thing. Without it we would be paying somewhere around $18 a gal at the pump, or so I have been told.

 

The sales figures for the original Pruis were close to depressing. In the 10 square miles surrounding my town we probably have the highest density of Prii & other hybrids on the east coast. Most of the i know that purchased on of the early hybrids did so because the tax credit hedged the risk of purchasing unproven technology.

 

I noticed on a long steep descent I can regenerate about 1.2mi by maintaining a moderate 30 mph speed (if no one on my tail), but only 0.8mi if I go at 'normal' speed with heavier braking.

 

Did the math just like any talented engineer or account should. Total cost of purchase (PIP: including tax credit and all incentives) ~ same as Prius III.
Estimate savings at time of purchase $150-$200 per year
Estimated savings based on experience at 3000+ miles (including winter driving) compared $225 to $250 (gas $3.80 & electricity 12.1 cents)
Savings over years compared to Prius III $1,125 to $1,25
By the way, I am using excess solar production to charge my PIP. As a result, my savings actually are higher (~$150 higher per year).

Hmmmm! I wonder if my results combining solar and a Plugin might encourage others to install solar panels to both power their both their home and PHEV/EV.

 

Like I already said, the more you could "steal", the better the buy. If you read my message posted earlier, you would see that I already agreed with that. You people just call it tax credit and incentives. That is stealing money from the tax pool. I'm not saying you did something wrong since the government is allowing it. I'm just saying the technology can't stand on its own. Of course there will always be someone who would buy an PPI no matter what. But I'm talking about majority of the people. It's actually very simple, just look at the sale numbers between the standard Prius and the PPI.

Regardless on how I feel about the PPI, it's never a good idea to let the government decide what technology is good for the people. If the government really want to be green, they should raise the tax on gasoline and use the extra money to improve the public transportation system, highways and bridges. Higher gas prices will also eventually get rid of a lot of the big cars on the road. Recently a friend of mine purchased a Highlander but he think the Prius sucks when comes to comfort. But if gas was at $7/gallon, he may think twice.