Hybrid Drive is no different than Fuel Injection

the more things change, the more they stay the same.

very good point and relevant comparison.

 

I do not know. I might include battery/spark ignition as a fundamental.

better than a hot tube

Of course, early on no one trusted it so they also had a magneto backup system.

Self-Starters were nice too.

Of course, early on no one trusted them so they had a hand crank backup

 

Darn, I forgot internal combustion. The first ones were steam.

 

I'm old enough to have driven a couple new cars that had carburetors when I was young.

The thing I that I notice the most is that every fuel-injected car I've ever owned (basically, every car I've owned after I was out of college) is that they always start on the first crank, no matter how cold the weather, or how long they've been sitting. That was a huge change from the carbureted '83 Toyota pickup my parent's loaned me when I was in college. It almost always needed at least two tries to get it started, more than that if it was below freezing outside.

I don't think I've ever had to crank the starter a second time to start a car in the last twenty years, except when my hand slipped off the ignition switch.

 

The fuel injection comparison is spot on. About 20 years ago the domestics were getting on board with FI and some systems were quite good, some were awful and others were someplace in-between. There was a learning curve, especially when nearly all the first forays into FI were throttle body and more injectors came on board as the ability to control them became more sophisticated.

 

If by foreign, you mean european, right on. Most japanese cars were carburated well into the mid/late 80s.

 

In a similar way, HSD is like FWD. Cries that no mechanics could repair them, too many special tools, cramped installations. Not that some of that isn't true, however...

 

Haha! Great comparison! As one who's still researching, I come across many of what you said above as "flaws".... and still wonder about things like:

what if the battery don't last more than 12 years?
what if the battery overheats and burns... i've seen pics of one that did on yahoo groups

Thanks for the wake-up call! Unfortunately we Americans tend to have a negative connotation about new technology. That thinking, in itself hurts us more than it helps us.

I personally should know better... Many people fear that having a computer controlled automated 75 pound mower with blades turning 5800rpms across their lawns with nothing but a thin low voltage signal keeping it out of the street or in their neighbor's yard scares the heck out of people.... That is - until they do the research and learn how much safer they are in comparison to their traditional way of mowing. Now I'm more fearful of the old way of mowing vs the new! It's all about LEARNING and accepting new technology.

Your post enlighted me a lot on the Prius and releases a lot of doubt!

 

You do bring up an interesting piece of predujice tho.

The japanese imports were predominantly multi-port, where they were fuel injected at all.

Domestics reserved Multipoint injection for high end cars, and most of the 'entry level' cars were TBI. I mean, you could buy a Chevy Cavalier in the early/mid 80s with fuel injection.

I give more credit to the domestics for pushing it out.

 

Apparently there were different kinds of "multiport" back then...
my ol' Trooper had an injector at each inlet port, but ONE power
transistor to fire all of them at once. So I guess mixture would
just pile up behind the valve there in the manifold, and eventually
get sucked in when that cylinder's turn came around. Effin' weird.
.
_H*

 

"The Automatic Transmission, EFI, and Hybrid Synergy Drive, have been the only true fundamental changes to the automobile since its introduction."

And cupholders. Don't forget cupholders.

But seriously, although it isn't "fundamental," I'd have to add navigation systems as a major, major boon for those of us who are navigationally challenged. When it comes right down to it, I've been more grateful for that addition than anything else in the last few years. What good does it do you to go if you don't know where you're going?

Jan

 

Are you kidding with your fuel injection???

My ideal mode of transport would let me adjust the fuel consumption based on power needed. 1HP=.5bg/h and double that for every extra HP... Displacement on demand? this vehicle would have that! Drop one and tie it to the post at the saloon for some short distance sprinted driving.




btw
bg=buckets of grain

 

Automatic Transmission
5 speed gearbox
Electronic Ignition
EFI
Twin Cam
Twin cam quad valve
Electronic automatic with overdrive and torque converter lockup
Crumple Zones
Front Wheel Drive
All wheel drive
Turbocharger
Air bags and strong passenger compartment
VVTi
ABS
Traction control
ABS with brake assist
Hybrid

There have been one or two.

 

Hi All,

A friend of mine had a small Toyota , and it was $500 for the feed back carborator when it failed. This was in the mid 90's, so that was a chunk of change for the price of the car. So, his next car was a Saturn SW2, with multi-port fuel injection. I so liked the SW2, I bought the SL2 later on.

Anyway, there are many changes such as OP suggests. Starting from the Model T, which had the high-strength steel frame, etc. Then the Bendix, which made possible electric Start (and put electric cars into a temporary coma). Improved engines - Puegot brother invented valve overlap. Mechanical fuel injection mostly permiting roadable and train Diesel - but that did not make it into general car service for some decades afterward.

Automatic transmissions I think was next, which did not make it into general car application till after WWII. The 50's to the late 60's was pretty much repackaging the same-ol same-ol mechanics, although with considerable improvement in reliability in the US. This is when people began to sit in cars lower than the wheel height - finally divorcing the car from the carraige format. While in Europe the Beetle took off, after being stagnant since the 40's. The Beettle put the engine next to the drive wheels which opened up more space in the car, and provided better traction. And during this time the Mini happened as well. Which is what most cars on the road today are based on. IE the transverse mounted engine, transmission and axle, in a forward location, and front-wheel drive. I think that was a bigger change than fuel injection even.

Also during the 70's and 80's came electronic ignition. As a high school kid, one of my chores was to tune up my Dad's commuter Pinto every 3 months. And it really needed that done every 3 months. Points, Plugs, Gapping, Dwell, and Timing. With a Rotor and Distributor Cap once a year. With each new version of cars, each one of those tasks was reduced or eliminated, till now in the Pinto, the only ignition service will be plugs. I remember doing plugs on my Dad's Nissan in the 1980's, which was running rough. They were pristeene after 50 K miles. Which was very shocking to me! Plugs never had a chance to get that old in previous cars! The problem turned out to not be spark-plug electrode related, but the spark plug resistor had failed in one of the plugs! Electronic Ignition, along with Fuel Injection was forced by increasing emissions requirements - but it made a world of difference in the routine maintanence on cars! Think about this. This alone is probably responsible for the contraction of the car-parts store infrastruture to half of what it used to be back in the 60's!

 

the big thing is our reluctance to change. so many people fight it when it is better for them and i have read, heard and have been in focus groups as to why. but is it technology or radically different options and procedures.

there is a big movement in tech to simplify user interfaces for the older segment. many feel that older people dont want to take the time to learn new tricks making the old adage somewhat true. older people feel that their time is much more valuable than people in their younger years.

many were familiar with the Migo by LG. it was a brightly colored phone designed for children 12 and under.... well it tanked big time. it only had 4 buttons on it, no games, downloadable ringtones, etc.... kids hated it. well, now, something pretty similiar is being marketed to the 65 plus crowd.

not as birghtly colored, but an extra large display, twice as many function buttons with less than half the available features of a regular phone.

i think any technology that is simple to operate and provides a benefit is a plus. now that we have driven Priuses, many of us forget what we went thru to learn to start it, drive it, etc... its too bad that we have gone thru so many servers here at Priuschat to accommodate our amazing growth... posts back in early 2004 were pretty comical when you look back on them now