Tax, Tax, Tax.

Just goin' where the Prius are, Northern Virginia. Not many Prius downstate.

Bob Wilson

 

In the UK the vehicle tax used to be known as the Road Fund License and there was an explicit assumption that the money generated would be ring-fenced and used to pay for roads. We long ago (1936) recognised the impracticality of this idea and acknowledged that the tax is simply a tax that goes into the national exchequer to pay for whatever is required. Motorists in the UK also pay; fuel duty; value added tax (VAT) on fuel; tolls on some roads and bridges; congestion charges; VAT on vehicle purchases; insurance premium tax; company car tax and fuel benefit charges.
The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation, some of it at national level, for trunk roads and motorways etc and some of it at local level for local roads.
The annual budget statement from the government manipulates the size and structure of the taxation tool to try to achieve a huge variety of objectives. Reducing emissions and the use of fossil fuels is one of the potential objectives and leads to the sort of vehicle tax structure that we have at present. It also leads to the very large proportion of the cost of a gallon of petrol that is taken in taxation. I haven't checked the figures recently, but it was in excess of 60% the last time I looked.
I find the idea of hypothecating vehicle tax income a bit naive, given the complexity of real life. The tax raisers are always looking for new things to tax and plausible reasons for their actions.

 

Hell the next thing u know if u don't drive u will have to pay a tax. This is BS IMO.

 

It is a simple question of perspective:

The Prius tax is a subsidy to the downstate, inefficient cars.​

The Virginia gasoline tax is artificially low which is why the Prius have to pay a premium. They are paying extra road-taxes for the deadbeat, inefficient cars and trucks, found in greater numbers downstream.

Bob Wilson

 

In short crap floats down hill.

 

Wrong again, lame insults abound.

The southern part of the state is largely agriculturally based and the Prius has little use and is too expensive for the lower class population of the southern part of the state. The Prius tax is the perfect way to tax those in the northern part of the state for the use of the northern roads while adding yet another burden to the lower class population of the southern part of the state. Because of the much greater population in the northern part of the state the tax is a great way for all the "fair sharers" to put their money where their mouths are. They should have no problem making a few less trips to starbucks to pay the $64. As they say a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down...

What I don't understand is why people are so up in arms about this. It covers two of the biggest lib bases, people paying their fair share and giving subsidies to farmers.

 

Wow, there are a lot of stereotypes being thrown at those that aren't in prestigious northern Virginia apparently. I didn't realize there was such a rivalry, and frankly if the people up north make a lot more, they can afford to pay a lot more if that is truly the case. I am not familiar with the area, but from all indications in this thread, it seems like politics will find its way into the argument at some point. I am guessing that what I imagine to be a very small part of the state is very liberal and the rest is conservative. Either way, this isn't the end of the world and I think the attacks on those that may or may not choose to drive hybrids need to stop. My understanding from friends who live there or have lived there is that the main reason people drive hybrids in the DC area is to get into the HOV lane because apparently hybrids are allowed in them. Down here in the south, we don't have that. For electric vehicles and alternative fuel I believe so, but you have to have a special plate if I recall correctly.

 

I cant believe this, so terrible!

 

Ok, math time
Facts:
VA gas tax = $0.181 per gallon
Hybrid tax = $64 per year

Assumptions:
15K miles average per year
Prius - 47 mpg (from fuely)
Regular - 30 mpg (freaking guess)

Calculations:
Prius - (15k miles per year)/47 mpg = 319.15 gallons per year
(319.15 gallons per year x $0.181 tax per gallon) + $64 Hybrid tax = $121.77 worth of tax per year

Regular car - (15k miles per year)/30 mpg = 500 gallons per year
500 gallons per year x $0.181 tax per gallon = 90.5 worth of tax per year

Conclusions: Surely not all the .181 tax is going to maintaining the roads, same probably goes for the $64 hybrid tax but it seems like the average Prius owner is getting screwed. You would have to drive about 30k miles per year for the tax to work out to the same for Hybrid and non Hybrid drivers (based off the Prius mpg).

Tax info link: Gasoline tax information - Virginia Gas Prices

 

How about for a 25mpg average? 600 gallons per year x $.181 tax per gallon = $108.60
20mpg? 750 gallons x .181 = $135.75

So everyone with an SUV is still paying more, making the (miles/year)/weight of car argument still null in void.

 

You would have to compare the weight of the Prius (about 3050 lbs) and the psi applied to the roads based on tire size vs vehicles that gets 25 mpg before you invalidate anything.

 

Guess the real people who should complain are those with hybrid SUVs, huh?

 

You missed the point of the miles times weight tax. I am not trying to skirt paying my fair share. The point is meant to make the heavier trucks and SUV's pay a fairer share of the road damage than the smaller, lighter cars that typically get better mileage and do less damage.

 

and you missed my point in saying that they still are... the only cars that aren't getting the same hit as the hybrids, are cars that get better than 22.8mpgs. So heavier cars are still paying more as they "mostly" get worse mileage than this.

 

Yup

 

Sophistry aside, imagine the following:

• 97% of all cars are hybrids with this tax
• 3% of all cars are non-hybrids with 1/2 the fuel efficiency without this tax

That would obviously be the hybrids subsidizing the gas guzzlers.

But it is Virginia and they have the best government money can buy.

Bob Wilson

 

I am with Bob on this. This is a "whack a North VA democrat tax". The problem is the North VA democrats basically like it: they strongly support higher taxes are willing to pay it; the southern VA folks also support the idea of sending the taxes up to north VA. Also a number of the North VA Prii owners have "lifetime" HOV access so they are willing to pay the tax. So I am having trouble fighting it. ACLU (VA chapter) refused to help me fight it. But a repeal movement is planned by some elected officials...so don't count your chickens MP. In the Virginia scenario (excessive annual car taxes already hitting Prius hybrid owners quite hard) I do not see adding insult (hybrid tax) to injury (property taxes) as a fair idea.

If the "North" Virginia vs. "South" Virginia sounds biased to out-of-staters, get over it. Virginia's new transportation funding law is specifically based on the idea of transferring the tax burden to North Virginia (and Hampton Roads - whoever that is: VA Beach/Norfolk region). I do not understand how we can successfully run a "2-state system", but it makes sense to the elected officials. Aside from the hybrid tax, which is minor $$$ income to the state, North VA gets 1% higher sales tax and other new taxes. Therefore, any thought this VA road tax formula automatically applies to other states is doubtful.

PS- As a tip, I have registered my VA Prius thru 2017 so "no fees for me" as the new fees go into effect July 1 2013.

 

Corolla has less interior volume than a Prius and thus gets a compact classification vs. the midsized Prius. See Specs tab of Compare Side-by-Side.

 

As an outsider looking in, I think the tax seems only fair. I drive to Loudon Co every day from S. Pa and find the VA roads immensely better. I've lived in N. Va and enjoyed the fact that the infrastructure seems up to date and taken care of but someone has to pay and i paid my share. Giant $70k SUV owners pay at the pump and with the personal property tax. Us hybrid owners won't pay as much in property tax because the car new maxes at what, $35k and we pay less on gas. Pa roads are half garbage and the maintenance is inefficient. If only a tax would make the traffic go away and put a bridge into Md on rt 28, now I'd pay Va an annual tax for that

 

Here's the problem in VA: compared to PA, a hybrid owner in north VA owes about 20% in car taxes, total about $5000 over 10 years. An equivalent non-hybrid would pay about $3000 total taxes in VA. So if you own a hybrid in VA, you pay more for the car (typically $4000 more for a hybrid) and around $2000 more taxes. Now you are $6000 in the hole and you have to make that up in fuels savings.

That equation only works in your favor if you (a) put on a ton of miles, or (b) you are a Dem and you enjoy paying taxes.

Compare your tax on Prius in PA...what maybe maximum of $1500? vs. probably $5000 in northern VA (NoVA has higher annual car tax too).