Prius Owners: I need your help!

I have an '08 and a '12 PiP. Does that count for your query?
Richard

 

I basically think the whole forum is an informational tool.

The specifics and even generalities in difference between Gen 2 and Gen 3 have been well documented. And basically? When it comes to a purchase, the ultimate decision has to be with the purchaser.

I don't know how many times I've typed...Beltless Engine, No fuel Bladder (regular gas tank) and Heat Reclamation System as opposed to coolant thermos. Throw in bigger engine? There are a lot of differences, but people are also applying their own criteria. Cost, budget, etc.

I actually think both gen's are excellent products. So if for budget reasons, or even just personal preference reasons somebody wanted a Gen 2 over a Gen 3 or vice versa? I'd just let them do the research themselves and come to their own conclusion.

It's not like one is horrible and the other great.

 

OK, then.

First, my PiP is Prius #3 for me. I started out with an '05, which accumulated 120k miles before I traded it for the PiP. I also own an '08 on which I've put about 40k miles. It is pretty obvious that I like the Prius. Next, with all those miles behind me, I'm very comfortable in the Gen 2. I don't really have any complaints about it beyond the trivial.

I'm 6'3"+ and I have found both G2 and G3 equally comfortable. The center console in the G3 doesn't particularly bother me. It's a nice but gratuitous decorative touch. I haven't noticed any real difference in power, handling, or mileage (in pure hybrid mode) between the generations. I've driven both generations in mountainous areas without noticing any insufficiency of power. And, like many Prius driving wimps, I don't think I've ever had to floor the accelerator, and so have never had the opportunity to compare acceleration. If it weren't for the items below, I think I'd be neutral between them in terms of driving considerations.

Item 1 - the trivial. The steering wheel in the G2 has four spokes that meet the outer rim at oblique angles. In the G3, there are also four spokes, but two form one oblique and one acute angle with the outer rim. So what? So, if you like to turn the wheel quickly by inserting a finger between the end of the spoke and the rim, one time out of four you will emit an "OW!" and risk wearing a groove in your finger. I do believe I am the first to offer this complaint.

Item 2 - the serious. Whoever decided to replace the nice G2 navigation display in its sensible location with the execrable one with poor resolution and idiotic choice of map colors and fonts tilted up into the sunlight in the G3 should be taken out and shot. Alas, the "whoever" is almost certainly a committee - no individual could make all those poor decisions - and I risk contributory genocide by my suggestion. Let's just say I'm unhappy with the display.

I've only driven the PiP for a few thousand miles, so I'm less comfortable with it than with the G2. But, really, other than the display issue, I don't think there's enough difference to fuss over. Having the PiP as I do, there are some advantages beyond the electric range. E.g., you can harvest more energy going down mountain passes. This is probably counterbalanced by the slightly greater weight of the battery pack. In summary, I largely concur with OP Electric Me in all but my bias against the new display.

Richard

 

My point of view is from Techie & Cheapie going from a 2006 Package 3 to a 2010 V-AT. I was very disappointed and frustrated initially. On the same scale the 2006 was rated 45mpg. The 2010 was rated 50mpg. I am expecting a 10% increase in MY numbers based on YOUR numbers. That never happened. Other owners in the same situation generally reported modest to insignificant increases. My numbers fall in that range.

I didn't like that the car was de-featured. One had to buy higher levels to get what was standard equipment. The 3 door SKS & camera come to mind. The CD player held 6 but now holds 4. The MID has all the charm of the graphics from the early 1980's and looks right at home with Space Invaders or Asteroids. I never use most of the screens. Having the cruise control, LKA, and oil change reminder pop up as often as they do is very annoying. I don't like that the calculated fuel economy is ~7% optimistic by design. Is accurate instrumentation really too much to ask for? Miles to Empty is a joke.

The Denso nav system is about equally retarded as a $200 Garmin but costs 10 times as much. I also don't like the speed lockout. Garmin, TomTom, and Magellan don't have one and they haven't been sued out of business. I don't like the curvy dash as it doesn't keep my beanbag mount from sliding around. It took me 3 years to find sticky rubber products that will hold things in place on the dash even through violent maneuvers. The down side is that the pad that works the best damaged the surface of the dash.

After 3+ years of driving the 2006, driving the 2010 was frustrating. They are two different cars with different components that have different curves. It took time to learn the new sweet spots and how to run on just the battery.

The flying buttress is a waste of space and the seat warmer buttons are poorly placed. They should be up on the buttress in easy reach along with a push button shift.

It didn't take long for the shiny black plastic spoiler to show swirlies. I would prefer it to be body color. I also don't care for the blue badging, particularly on the colors that clash. speaking of colors, some solid enamel colors would be nice.

With all that said, would I go back to a Gen2? No. The Gen2 is a great car and I loved mine. I said, "You can have my Prius when you can pry it out of my cold dead hands." The Gen2 took me from 25mpg to 50mpg. The Gen3 is a relatively minor improvement. Toyota's coasting as they haven't had any real competition for years. That's changing.

Is it worth upgrading from a Gen2? That depends, if the Gen2 is doing everything you want it to then the answer is no. If the different features in the different packages appeal to you, then yes.

Notice how he worst things I have to complain about aren't much more than nuisance items. Through 70000 miles my 2010 has been close to rock solid. I'm still looking for my perfect car. Right now nobody is making it.

 

I had a 2004 Prius and upgraded to a 2010 Prius Five with the Advanced Technology Package (ATP). The main reason to upgrade was the Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC), which is part of the ATP.

To me, having the DRCC was worth the upgrade. In my opinion, a standard cruise control is useless most of the time, since traffic rarely allows maintaining a constant speed. With the DRCC I can set the speed to my desired value and it will automatically adjust the speed of the car to maintain a reasonable distance from the car in front (up to the set value).

However, there are a whole slew of minor inconveniences with the 2010 compared to the 2004. Some include: can't wear polarized sunglasses anymore (some of the instrumentation is polarized, and not all in the same direction), storage areas are fewer and smaller, console intrudes into the space between the seats (I occasionally carry boxes containing model railroad accessories and they don't fit as well in the 2010), fuel economy is no better (may be slightly worse), auto-dimming mirror less useful, battery in key fob needs to be replaced much more often, etc. Of course, the 2010 introduced a whole set of new annoyances, including DRCC takes over the multi-information display (MID) whenever a car enters or leaves radar range, red phosphor on the MID is nearly invisible in sunlight, etc.

Would I go back to the 2004? Not on your life! No car is perfect. There will be annoyances/inconveniences with any car you buy. Are there more in the 2010? Maybe, maybe not. I like having a backup camera, I like having a built-in navigation system, I like having the XM satellite radio, I LOVE the DRCC. Could Toyota have done better with the third generation? Of course. I hate the marketing decisions which precluded buying a Prius with both the DRCC and the solar powered ventilation system (i.e. the moon roof). They could have easily included daylight running lights and automatic headlights (which they added in the 2012 refresh).

Which generation is better? It is up to the individual to decide for himself. Things that are important to me would be deemed unnecessary by others. You have to weigh to features you want against the price and options available with other choices.

 

I had all three generations. The Gen I was adequate. The Gen II was a good car. The Gen III PiP Advanced is a great, comfortable car relative to the other two. Much smarter electronics - those we see and also those we don't see (or play with), i.e. the power management electronics.

My only nit to pick between Gen II and Gen III: the Gen II had a MAP button on the steering wheel. The Gen III does not. To return to the MAP display, you have to hunt & click over on the main display screen while watching the road.

Good Luck either way!

 

I had a 2009 Prius level 5 and have a 2012 Prius v station wagon level 3.
It is larger and more comfortable, but the nav is worse, the mileage is 5 MPG lower and I miss the 3 door SKS.

I do not notice more power but I never felt any lack of power in the Gen 2 and have never had my v out of Eco mode.
The v really does have more cargo room
Gen 2

Prius v

 

Started out with a 2008, package 2. No real bells or whistles - did have 3 door SKS and camera. Still running strong at 70K. Purchased a 2012 (5) last December. Lots more stuff, but as far as comparing the cars each has its pluses and minuses. I like the seats in the Gen III more - not because of the pleather, but because the drivers seat offers adjustments. I could do without the flying buttress in the Gen III like most folks. The back-up camera on the Gen II is better at judging distance - the Gen III is OK - maybe I haven't driven it enough. The armrest in the Gen III suck - whose upper arm is that long that it can reach the armrest. Needed to put some 2-inch foam on it to make it functional. Gas mileage on the Gen II seems to be better on a consistent basis. The Gen III has the 17-inch wheels and "better" tires, but I'm seeing a 3 to 3.5 mpg difference between the two. Love the auto headlamps, LED lamps and DRL on the Gen III - I much prefer driving the III at night over the II. Don't have the nav in the II, but could live without it in the III. $99 Garmin does a better job. Not sure, but I think the sound system in the II is better and it isn't any premium anything - maybe has to do with speaker placement. I could also do without the "sound" at low speeds on the III - makes me think I have a brake disk caliper problem.

Which do I prefer? Whichever one is sitting in the garage. My daughter drives the II, my wife drives the III. I only get to drive them if I get there first. Otherwise I get 14.6 mpg at best in the crew cab pick-up.

 

Pearl S (GIII) is easier to get really good mileage in.
Pearl (GII) had more storage and more storage compartments.
Pearl S feels a bit "unsure" on the road. Not sure what is up with that, maybe the OEM tyres.

I usually don't stay up late, and don't drive at night. Friday I went with friends to the new 3D Startrek movie "Into Darkness". It finished at 22:30 and I drove home in darkness and rain for the first time (it's been almost exactly a year now). All I can say is "WOW". The technology in this car is amazing!

Pearl was smarter than I, Pearl S is WAY smarter than I!

 

i had an 04 and 08. now, with the pip, i really like the hsi power bar. helps me hypermile vs no feedback from the gen II except the power flow arrows. but there are a lot of things from the gen II that i miss as well.

 

Owned 2009 for 2 1/2 years, had 2011 for 1 1/2 years.

I'm 6'2". I happen to think the '2nd gen' ought to have been advertised with sign like amusement park ride: thou shalt not be taller than 6'0" for this car. Tiny driver's seat perched up high, good practice for ducking down to see signs and such. Miserable place for long legs, nothing to rest a right leg on while driving. One guy fashioned a pvc pipe to hold his leg up while driving. There is an eHow page specifically warning how crappy the 2nd generation driver's seat was. 3rd gen mechanical chair somewhat better, Softex power seat the best so far.

2nd gen chassis had a lot of flex. Felt sort of chintzy but could be upgreaded with chassis bar. 2nd gen had nauseating coolant thermos pump, hated that noise.

3rd gen is not much faster, but it feels more 'robust' accelerating. whole car feels more solid, base models compared.

3rd gen does electric at low speeds much better than 2nd. Was a rare deal to EV around home tract with 2nd gen.

3rd gen has motor reduction gear allowing EV at higher speeds and more often.

running out of thoughts here but for me, 2nd gen Prius was intolerable to drive. 3rd gen is more tolerable, power seat would help. Looking to get a quieter midsize 40+ MPG 4 door sedan in 5 years or so.

 

Good eye ! Get by with 1 1/2" meself. 3m picture hanging tape not damaging fabric so far. No need for perma install.

 

I have both a 2004 package 9 and a new 2013 PiP.

I do miss the bits of storage that are missing in the third generation. There are no longer the storage space in the front doors (just space for a drink bottle), the little drawer at the bottom front of the console or the bin with a door under the audio system. There is an open storage tray under the flying buttress console. I cannot speak to the amount of space under the deck in the back. There is very little in the PiP because of the larger battery.

There are improvements in the navigation system, that it can speak street names and you can enter a destination by voice command. I don't know about the cost to upgrade the navigation data, but if it is similar to the second generation, a dedicated portable GPS is better for less cost, and usually now includes map updates. (There was a service bulletin for a free upgrade to the 2005 data, and I ventured a look at the DVD and quickly realized from the copyrights that by the time the DVD was released the map data was two years old!)

The Bluetooth with a cell phone may be a mixed bag. Instead of transferring numbers into the phone book, the third generation accesses and uses the phone book in the connected phone. This may work well with one the the documented smart phones. But my Pantech Swift wants permission to send contact data every time it is in the car and it does not do a complete job. So far there has not been a problem in making or receiving calls. The various applications do require one of the documented smart phones and uses the data plan to access the internet. Unlike the 2004, you can manually enter contact information. There is now the ability to place calls by voice command.

My ears really can't hear a significant difference between the premium audio system of the 2004 package 9 and the standard audio system in my base PiP. While I lose the 6 CD changer, I gain the ability to play mp3 disks (I think this was available in 2006 and later.) I also gain a USB connector for an iPod Touch with control. So this makes much more music of my choice available than is possible with 6 CD's. I am enjoying the SiriusXM trial period, but at this point I am not sure that I will pay for the subscription.

There are more options for display of the EV/Hybrid system operation in the high mounted dashboard than was on the second generation LCD display. Sometimes I would use the begin and end mileage and MPG readings to get an idea of the MPG for a trip. On the Pip, this is displayed when you power down.

One thing to consider with these replies. As mentioned above, there were mid-generation changes made in 2006 and also in 2012.

 

Having had a 2004 and now a 2010, I agree with the flying buttress annoyance and missing storage compartments in the 2010. I have better mileage in the 2010, probably about 3-5 mpg better. I have fewer squeaks and rattles, my 2004 was pretty bad in that department. I've had far fewer problems with the 2010. My 2004 had to have the dashboard removed twice to fix things, once to replace the little screen that went bad (all was under warranty) but the car was never the same in the rattle department after that and also there was a reflection thrown on the windshield right at eye level they were never able to fix. I think the 2010 is better in many ways just because it's newer. Hope this helps.

 

I never owned gen2 but rode a few taxis. They seemed slightly smaller and a whole lot nosier (on acceleration) compared to my own 3rd gen.

For the record: I also test drove gen 1 way back and didn't like that experience.

 

IraS, Thanks for your post. We are a dual Prius family: 2007 Prius 2 and now with a 2013 Prius 5 with ATP and the same main reason for the investment: DRCC. I've scoured the manuals, forums and can't locate a simple question. When the DRCC is activated (re. deceleration occurring b/c the set distance is compromised), do the rear BRAKE lights activate/show just as they do when manually pressing the brakes?

 

I would recommend sending a note to: john1701a

His web site is an awesome collection of Prius technichat.

We only have the NHW11, 2003 Prius, and an early 2010 Prius. What I can tell you is:

• both cars set similar MPG
• 2010 Prius does it 5 mph faster and over shorter distances
• more space
• has towed 1,700 lbs of trailer and airplane
• 2010 Prius handles better than 2003 Prius (but it was pretty ratty)
• 2010 Prius does not easily tell you if the gas is totally gone

Bob Wilson