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Happy new owner in San Francisco

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Motorway, Feb 4, 2006.

  1. Motorway

    Motorway New Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I’ve been a lurker for about two months, but now that I have my new car (‘06 black package 3) I thought I’d join up. I’ve appreciated all the wonderful information found at this site. There is a lot of devotion, and a lot of knowledge here. It’s definitely an amazing resource, one that helped me in making the decision to buy a Prius, and in understanding the complexities of this special vehicle.

    Okay, that said, here are some of my first week impressions of the new car!

    What a beautiful smooth ride! I call it my “zen car†because when I’m in it I get an overwhelming sense of calmness. I attribute it to the quiet electric mode, but I think the design of the dashboard must get some credit as well -- the way it sits at a distance, with its futuristic flare. My driving habits are definitely changing, and for the better.

    I’ve got a package 3, so there’s not a lot of extra bells and whistles on the monitor, but I still like everything that IS on there. Lots of fun. I’m really happy to have the smartkey entry system too. The double beep from my touch, when unlocking the doors, feels like bonding with the car. The only way it could be better is if the entire body was sensored for contact, so touching any surface would work. One side note: I’ve already changed the default to unlock ALL doors from the driver’s side. IMHO it should have come that way from the factory, but then I’ve read the other opinions (security, worn locks, etc.) and they’re all valid too.

    I’ve done 2 other modifications at this point. I’ve disabled the reverse beep. I’m not worried about moving in the wrong direction accidentally since I’ve trained myself to see the reverse camera screen first. I’ve also taken the advice of many and changed the tire pressures to 38 front and 36 rear. I may go up to 40/38, but my big concern is that I live in a compact city (San Francisco) with many streets in less than stellar condition. One of the arguments I’ve read against higher tire pressure is the potential for more punctures. I’m happy to report that I have pretty decent parking karma (especially for San Francisco), but what I definitely don’t have is TIRE karma. You’d think I was a carpenter with all the nails and screws I’ve collected over the years.

    Since I’m on the topic of San Francisco, I must bring up the one downside of my new car experience. This isn’t a rant, but only a slight disappointment in the initial MPG I’m getting. Now before everyone emails with lots of advice and comments on the subject of fuel economy let me say that I’ve read extensively about all of it -- here, at Priusonline.com, and also the excellent Evan Fusco article. I’m aware of all the variables (break-in period, new driver, weather, terrain, winter gas, short commute and on and on.)

    But unfortunately all the information didn’t quite prepare me for a first tank average of 36, especially when the Prius has always been touted as a city driving all-star. What’s up with that anyway? Seems to me that people are getting the best mileage from a longer, constant commute (like one would get on a highway), so I’m not sure why Toyota lists city miles higher than highway miles on the window sticker. I certainly haven’t seen evidence of that in many of the MPG posts here.

    I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I live in a location that will cause my MPG to take a hit -- on many different levels. Higher numbers may not be in the cards for me (unless I take a road trip to Vegas or something.) So even though I live up on a hill and have an 8 mile R/T, stop and go commute (within the city), rarely get a chance to pulse and glide, and basically have to deal with cool temperatures almost year round (fellow SFer’s will sympathize about the weather), I’m still glad I bought this amazing car. (BTW, I’d be glad to hear from other San Franciscan’s about their Prius experience with local conditions. Do things really look up in the summer, and after the break in period?)

    I’m probably going on too much for a first post, also covering too many topics at once, so I’ll stop here.

    Thanks again for all the helpful advice and I’ll keep checking in for more (and occasionally adding my 2 cents), since I plan on having this car for a long time!
     
  2. glenk

    glenk Member

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    San Francisco would definitely make a negative impact on mileage and your R/T is short but you should wait to see what your next fill-ups give you.

    I'm in San Jose, and with 380 combined miles on my new 2006, the first fill-up was 52.7 mpg. The average mpg on my consumption display was 50.7 mpg. So it may be that I didn't top off the tank far enough, but I think I achieved somewhere between those two numbers.

    I kept my speeds on the freeway below 65 mph, anticipated stop lights, pulse and glided, etc. to get 50+ on my first tank, so it can be done!
     
  3. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

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    CONGRATS and welcome to the board. :)
     
  4. darwin100

    darwin100 New Member

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    I too spend a lot of time in SF...and the hills have a decided impact on MPG but the posititve side andwhat I use to maximize is that going down...increases MPG...
    I am now getting around 45 avg. However when I do long trips I have gotten in the 50's...the upside is that what ever my MPG I am spending only a third of what I used to spend on petrol.
    d
     
  5. jbarnhart

    jbarnhart New Member

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    Just a tiny clarification, it isn't TOYOTA who "lists city miles higher than highway miles on the window sticker." It's the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. The sticker is mandated by the feds. Car makers don't have a choice to put one number over another, nor do they have any influence over the numbers themselves -- it's all standardized and mandated by the government.
     
  6. Motorway

    Motorway New Member

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    Point taken, but it still doesn't explain how the govt. came up with a higher city number than a highway number, when real world evidence shows otherwise.
     
  7. Jack 06

    Jack 06 New Member

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    First, welcome to PriusChat, and congrats on your car. I have two pkg. 3s.

    Very good post. It's a shame that with SF/Bay Area being the leading Prius-buying place in the U.S., there isn't yet a communications network attracting more than a handful of owners. Another PC member and I put together a Prius meetup last Oct. 30 at Crissy Field on a decent day, but only half a dozen attended.

    As you may have heard, the EPA will reconfigure the way it tests for MPG (probably in 1-2 years), and the "city" testing will change drastically. With the SF topography and your short commute, you have two strikes against you. Have you taken a ride south or east of half an hour or more yet? Take a ride down to Half Moon Bay when you have time and you'll enjoy 45-50 MPG, guaranteed.

    Even your 36 MPG will be improved as you learn to change old habits. I know it can be hard to try to stay under 40 MPH in the mad SF traffic flow, especially on non-hilly streets, but that's where you'll make your biggest gains.

    Good luck, and check back in with us and let us know how you're doing.
     
  8. Motorway

    Motorway New Member

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    I've kind of noticed that. The Prius are everywhere in San Francisco, but yet I don't get a sense that the owners care to chat about their cars on the message boards. Maybe they're just lurking like I did for 2 months. Incidentally, I gave a couple driving in another black Prius a little wave today as we passed each other. Either they didn't notice or thought I was a crazy person, as there was NO reciprocation. :huh:
     
  9. spindoc

    spindoc New Member

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    Congrats on your new partner! :)

    So explain me: How did you change the default unlock to all doors????

    I think the explanation of higher mileage in the city is this: when sitting at a traffic light, consumption is zero. If you are driving in the typical large city, you do a fair amount of that. On the highway, there is no zero consumption.

    I have an '06 coming in the next few days. We bought an '05 new a couple months ago, and it is my wife's car. I had no intention of trading in my own car (a '98 BMW M3 with Dinan package), but after driving Ellen's car and enjoying the high-tech so much, finally decided to order my own!

    Spindoc
     
  10. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Active Member

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    This doesn't really make sense. Sure, when you're stopped at a light there's zero consumption, but you're also not traveling anywhere, so there are zero miles. Now, this is certainly better than other cars where the engine is always running in the city, but it doesn't explain the difference between the Prius on the highway and the Prius in the city. My understanding is that, when you're in the city, you're more able to make use of the electric motor, the regenerative braking reclaims some energy, and (perhaps most importantly) you experience less drag because you're traveling at a slower speed.
     
  11. tomdeimos

    tomdeimos New Member

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    All cars should get better mpg in city than on highway. This is because the air drag is far less at the slower speeds.

    The reason they don't is due to the poor engine efficiency at low loading. This is the problem the Prius solves nicely.

    The only reason a Prius should get low mpg in city driving is if the stops and starts is more than the EPA test allows for, or from steep hills that require more than regen braking. Or when using the AC heavily the cost in mpg is relatively great.
     
  12. Motorway

    Motorway New Member

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    Instructions on changing the unlock default are included in the manual. I'm at work so can't give you the exact page number. If my memory is correct it involves the fob, panic button and outdoor lock button. Once you have the car it'll be an easy switch.

    Curious, how does it work on your wife's car? And are the instructions possibly in the manual for the '05?
     
  13. Motorway

    Motorway New Member

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    That's probably my main MPG consumer. I love the hills here, and live on one, but they are killers on a car! I almost feel sorry for the Prius when I'm forcing it up hill to get home. But then I remember IT'S A CAR! (but one with a helluva lot of personality.)
     
  14. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    Indeed they are.
     
  15. Motorway

    Motorway New Member

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    A follow up to my first post:

    I complained a bit about my first tank's mileage, which was all hilly city driving on mostly chilly days. Well, got the car out on the open road today and saw the numbers jump into the 50's for an average! That felt really good, and also proved that the car is doing what it's supposed to. Or in otherwords: I don't have a lemon!!

    It's all optimism and smiles around here. :D
     
  16. V8Cobrakid

    V8Cobrakid Green Handyman

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    as a person who lives in the bay area, and has friends in S.F., i would change your tires since the car is still new. they should give you credit toward new ones. I went with the goodyear Comfort threads. They cost more but have a much better warranty.. they are also quieter, won't slip on those hills ( think of first rains) and are better resistant to wear and tear since it's a better tire.

    Otherwise.. have fun with the new car. Feel free to join the S.F. Bay Area group.
     
  17. DJL

    DJL Junior Member

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    Hi Motorway,

    I have an '06 Pkg 3 with about 500 miles on it now, and I'm on my third tank of gas. I also live on a steep hill in SF (Diamond Hts area, approx. 600 ft elev.). I got about 32 mpg on the first tank, and 35 on the second tank. I mostly drive in town. When I have gone down 280 to Palo Alto and environs, the display indicates about 43 mpg average (driving 65-75 mph).

    I also park next to someone who has an '04 model. He says he gets around 32 mpg.

    Regarding your not getting acknowledged by a fellow motorist...there are many Prii in SF, and it may not be enough of a connection to receive an acknowledgement. In addition, it's so difficult just getting around -- avoiding loonies, crawlers, oblivious pedestrians on cell phones, and double-parked trucks -- that at least for me I'm hardly in a state of mind to be waving at anyone.

    Congrats on your purchase,
    Don
     
  18. DaveSheremata

    DaveSheremata New Member

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    HI Guys!

    Congrats on the new cars Motorway, DJL!

    I'm curious to know what kind of fuel economy you guys had with other vehicles in SF, as I imagine that they're also WAY off of the EPA figures.

    Also, Motorway - the EPA numbers for city and highway actually come from a test where they put the car on a giant treadmill called a dynamometer - you can see the test-rig here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml - they don't just make the numbers up as I think you suggest.

    I haven't been to SF in a while, but I used to spend a couple weeks there every year, and drive up and down from San Clara to Pier 39 where my buddy lives. I'd love to drive my Prius around there, especially down Lombard Street! You S.F. guys should get together and arrange a photo shoot of 15 Prii going down Lombard for the 2007 calendar ;)
    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...imagesr&start=1

    Seriously though - Motorway, do you get up to the green bars alot? Perhaps a slightly more gentle take off from the green light could help you maximize those green bars? I know that there's 5 ways to get anywhere in San Francisco - are different routes showing you different kinds of fuel economies? Also, one thing I'm seeing here in D.C. with my first 600 miles is that the first 10 minutes are always really low as the engine warms up - even with the temperature at 56 degrees - isn't that about your temperature in SF? If you drive for 30 minutes in the city, are you still at 36mpg for the last 15 minutes? Isn't it usually 10 - 15 degrees warmer down the road in San Jose?

    I imagine it'd be a DREAM driving around Marin County - electric mode around those hairpin turns through eucalyptus and redwood groves!

    Sorry for the long post and all the questions - you guys live in a city that I daydream about - I'd love to move there!

    Anyway, keep us posted, and good luck!
    Dave
     
  19. Motorway

    Motorway New Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion. I'm actually really happy with the car's performance and handling. I think I'll stick with the factory tires until replacements are needed. This is the most I've ever spent on a car, so buying new tires right off the bat doesn't quite fit into my now tighter budget. In my first post I mentioned having bad tire karma, so the reality is I'll be shopping for new tires sooner than later anyway. :p
     
  20. Motorway

    Motorway New Member

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    So it was YOU then!!

    No, seriously, thanks for the input Don. It helps to know that I'm not the only one taking a hit from driving in this beautiful, yet challenging city. Have you noticed more crazy drivers than usual, now that you have a new car? It's like protecting your young out there.

    Couple questions: what color package 3 did you get? And what is a "crawler"? Cats and dogs?

    BTW, I'm right around the corner from you in Noe Valley.