VW Grp. Chief: Lower CO2 Goal: Plug ins, nat. gas, high eff. diesel, 10 spd trans. plans

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by kgall, May 14, 2013.

  1. kgall

    kgall Active Member

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    Here are a couple of pieces linked to on tdiclub.com, a VW Diesel fan website, that I haven't seen here.
    I've put the topics of the talk by Prof. Dr. Winterkorn (don't you like the idea that German business leaders do NOT run from their intellectual background and training in public?) of most interest [to me, anyway] in the thread header, and here are some excerpts:

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswa...g-10-speed-dsg
    "Speaking at the International Vienna Motor Symposium, Dr Winterkorn announced the new engine and gearbox as part of the VW Group’s commitment to lowering its fleet-wide CO2 emissions to 95g/km by 2020, although a date to introduce the new engine and gearbox was not given.
    He added that he still believed existing internal combustion engines had lots of potential, stating, “‘Since the year 2000, we’ve reduced the fuel consumption of our TDI and TSI engines by more than 30 per cent. I’m convinced that by 2020 we can achieve further increases in efficiency of around 15 per cent.”
    In addition to the bhp per litre figure, Winterkorn announced that the new engine would have “a variable valve-train assembly, a high-pressure injection system at up to 3,000bar and combined charging with the innovative e-booster [which is VW’s terminology for its electric turbocharger].”
    He also confirmed the VW Group’s interest in developing plug-in hybrid technology, by confirming that the plug-in Porsche Panamera and Audi A3 e-tron will go into production shortly, and that similar versions of the Golf, Passat, Audi A6 and Porsche Cayenne will also be produced.
    In mainland Europe, where such an infrastructure exists, Winterkorn reiterated VW’s commitment to natural gas powered cars. The eco-up! is currently the world’s most economical natural gas car, emitting 79g/km of CO2, and the firm will roll out natural gas versions of the Golf, called the TGI BlueMotion, and the Audi A3 g-tron."


    http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...ed-dsg-gearbox
    "VW is also keen to push natural gas technology, which Winterkorn believes “is environmentally friendly, economical and suitable for everyday use”.
    He added. “The technology is fully developed and the vehicles are already on the market. We need to make the public even more aware of the benefits of natural gas engines. Everyone needs to play their part in this: car makers, politicians and the fuel industry.”
    Plug-in technology remains the best and most efficient powertrain option for the medium-term, according to Winterkorn."
     
    #1 kgall, May 14, 2013
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  2. Hell's Guardian

    Hell's Guardian New Member

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    Volkswagen seems to be playing hard into the downsizing, in many markets the Passat is available with the 1.4TSI as the base engine, and a 3-pot 1.2TSI was already presented. Due to the 3-cylinder layout leading to lower internal frictions comparing to a 4-cylinder, it's a good option to increase the fuel-efficiency. The only problem is the perception of the amount of cylinders as a premium feature (that might explain the average Joe's addiction to huge V8 boat-anchors).
     
    #2 Hell's Guardian, May 15, 2013
  3. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    1. Why 10 gear DSG? Audi/VW has its own CVT (multitronic) why not improve this infinite gear transmission, too many problems?
    2. 30% improvement from year 2000 is a fairytale or in other words NEDC cycle beating. Real world data shows only 3% improvement in diesel and 11% improvement in petrol. Source (excluding GTI and GTD):
    Übersicht: Volkswagen - Golf - Spritmonitor.de
    Übersicht: Volkswagen - Golf - Spritmonitor.de
    3. CNG in a TSI engine is win win combination, the problem is there are very few petrol stations that offer CNG (only 2 in my country)
     
    #3 GasperG, May 15, 2013
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  4. kgall

    kgall Active Member

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    Gasper,
    On your point 2, the numbers in your sources support your claims. So what do you think is going on? Is Winterkorn making things up? Or are the buyers of similar cars going for bigger engines?
    Living in Germany last year, it seemed to me that cars in Europe are larger than they used to be 20-30 years ago, at least on average. But that wouldn't account for your numbers, since you compared old Golfs to new Golfs.
     
    #4 kgall, May 15, 2013
  5. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    Winterkorn is talking strictly on a CO2 numbers that new cars get on NEDC in that regard he is 100% correct. But from the time EU is watching CO2 numbers and pushing on the manufactures to reduce CO2 emissions we are getting ridiculous numbers for fuel consumption, that can't be achieved in real life (test cycle beating). Other manufacturers are the same or even worse (KIA) than VW in this regard.

    Year 2000 is not very long ago, cars were already big and heavy (Euro NCAP testing was important), maybe a lot more powerfull cars are sold in the diesel segment (150 HP diesel vs 90 HP diesel). Everyone can play with the numbers and different cars on spritmonitor.de, may someone prove me wrong with an example.
     
    #5 GasperG, May 15, 2013
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  6. R-P

    R-P Active Member

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    Not too long ago Opel (GM) offered a CNG powered Zafira with a free CNG compressor for your home. Since home CNG is very common in the Netherlands (the only reason our country isn't in more debt than Greece is our natural gas resources...) and home CNG isn't loaded with insane fueltax like petrol (over 1€ a liter tax), it wasn't a bad idea...

    BTW: love your Spritmonitor calculations. I highly doubted mr Winterkorn's claims as I indeed read it as "30% better fueleconomy"...
     
    #6 R-P, May 15, 2013
  7. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    Also note that CO2 is directly related to fuel consumed, so you did read it right he said 30% better fuel economy, but again it's NEDC fault.
    1 liter of burned gasoline produces 2,33 kg of CO2
    1 liter diesel = 2,64 kg CO2
    1 kg CNG = 2,79 kg CO2
     
    #7 GasperG, May 15, 2013
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  8. Hell's Guardian

    Hell's Guardian New Member

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    I live in Brazil, where CNG became popular since mid-90s and the infrastructure in many regions is good, altough still not available nationwide. The only problem is that more than 50% of the CNG used here is imported from Bolivia. Lots of landfills and sewage treatment plants throwing raw biomethane on the atmosphere, which could be recovered to be used for energy purposes.
     
    #8 Hell's Guardian, May 15, 2013
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    As to #1, it is likely do to emotional bias. I remember a blurb in a press release for the Skyactiv transmission about different areas of the world preferring different automatic types. Most of the automotive press here seem to dislike CVTs here. I can imagine one being to 'whiney' at Autobahn speeds. Plus, manuals are more common in Europe. A double clutch auto is less change to adjust too.
     
    #9 Trollbait, May 19, 2013
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