Edmunds Long-term Prius c story

That's not TDI owners hating on the Prius, it's marketing people being paid to promote the TDI. Big difference.

 

I admit I missed those.....

 

Notice how they displayed the graphs?
In one test (the slalom) they showed how much slower the Prius is...58.4 mph compared to 60.1 mph. Wow! about a 3% difference! But the bar graph they showed went from about 57 mph to 61 mph so that the Prius bar is about 1/4 the length of Jetta bar...making the Jetta appear 4x as fast.

(Of course, different drivers can be more than 3% different)

Mike

 

TDI vs Hybrid - TDIClub Forums

 

As a new prius owner and soon to sell my 02 Jetta TDI people like to brag about there cars. I was going to buy a passat tdi but decided to rent a prius for a weekend. You always read the car got great mpg but drove bad. I was shocked how well it drove. Plus I got 56 mpg. Two weeks later I bought one. The 2 cars are different. They are made for different type of drivers.
Diesel will never take off because there are to many regulations to keep the cost high.

 

A couple more expenses such as fuel additives and fuel filters should be added to the cost of the fuel. I never went anywhere with my TDIs, without both in the trunk.

 

I've been a member of Fred's TDI for over 7 years now, and believe me, the attacks are there. There's been many times I've corrected a hybrid non-truth there and it was akin to a cow walking into piranha filled waters.

 

It was definitely a gremlin. The car did not start the very first time I sat in the car with the key in the ignition, foot on the clutch and shifter in the neutral position. It had zero response to my actions, no sound, nothing. After a bunch of tries I pulled the key out and started over with the same procedure and it started instantly. I thought it was strange but figured, hey what the heck, I want to test drive this thing. It showed it's ugly head again when I stalled it at the busy intersection. It's really a bummer because I really wanted to like it. I've always wanted a diesel, it handles nicely and has a conventional look and feel which I prefer over the Prius. I appreciate the Prius for it's mileage capabillities, and I like the technology of the hybrid system. I just can't get myself to warm up to the styling and some other issues I have with the car. Time will tell...........

 

Are they going after Prius owners? Or are they going after Prius shoppers? It would make sense to target some advertising to people shopping for a fuel efficient vehicle.

 

Are you comparing the Rav to a Mercedes Diesel or a Jetta TDI because depending on your perspective, costs are not nearly equivalent. You can buy nearly TWO Jetta TDI's for the price of ONE Rav4ev. How a Rav4 could be "more fun" is also questionable, but I'll give that to you. The Rav may be quicker, but it certainly isn't faster. Let's not forget the fact that the Rav is range limited and requires a lengthy recharge vs. a quick fill up at the fuel pump. It's all about your needs, what's good for you doesn't necessarily make it a better vehicle. Sales figures for the Rav4ev prove that it doesn't fit the mold for nearly 99.999% of the population. Most people don't get free fill up perks at work, or can afford a 50K car that has a limited range.
Actually,I got a kick out of your statement that your Rav4ev was more fun to drive than the TDI's.

 

Quicker? Faster? Some definitions please?

 

I'll try...
Quick = 0-60 mph time
Faster = top sustainable speed

Mike

 

So acceleration vs. velocity. He's taking the RAV4 to task for top speed?

 

Exactly Mike

 

'12 Rav4 EV can be had for net of a bit under $30K net (not including sales tax and title) after the $10K So Cal Toyota incentive, $7.5K Federal tax credit and $2.5K CVRP (for CA residents only). See Toyota Rav4 EV Forum • View topic - $10k SoCal / $9.3k NorCal Toyota Cash @ 0 % by Jun 3, 2013.

To quote from a BMW ActiveE lessee at Facebook:

For some folks, fueling up means making a diversion or a trip to the gas station, possibly waiting in line and it takes longer than 8 seconds to fill a tank.

2013 Toyota RAV4 EV 0-60 MPH Technology DemonstrationThe Fast Lane Car did an acceleration test at the 6 min mark. Averaged out, it'd be just a tad under 7 seconds.

I have test driven it briefly 2x. It's very easy to squeal the tires in sport mode. I'm surprised I didn't hear any in his test.

 

People actually thought I paid $50k for a Rav4EV?

I want to know how that guy can buy 2 brand new VW fully loaded TDI for $28k + tax. My friend paid $32k OTD and did not even get fully loaded on the Jetta wagon which is closely compared to the Rav.

 

Ok, 10K off the price tag from Toyota is a step in the right direction, but your still talking about purchasing a 44K car at the dealer. Not everyone will qualify for the federal tax incentive and yes the nearly bankrupt State of CA will kick you back 2.5K. Still one has to be able to manage a loan for a car with an approx. price of $44K OTD. You get a great second car/commuter that will travel maybe a 100 miles if your lucky and take SIX HOURS to charge! This isn't even a practical comparison, it's clearly a niche car for certain individuals who have the cash to buy this kind of car. By the way the VW dealer won't stop calling me after I test drove a TDI a few weeks ago. They are dealing as well. Personally I think these cars should be able to stand on their own merit, and not be subsidized by our tax dollars, but that's a whole different issue.

 

Sure, not everyone will qualify, but one can "create" taxable income and therefore tax liability by shifting some $ from an IRA to a Roth IRA. Toyota is offering 0% APR financing in conjunction w/that $10K incentive.

Per http://nhts.ornl.gov/2009/pub/stt.pdf (Summary of Travel Trends: 2009 National Household Travel Survey from NHTS Publications) on page 54, the average commute speed in a private vehicle in 09 was 28.87 mph. Also for private vehicles, the average commute travel trip length was 12.09 miles and average commute travel time was 22.85 minutes.

From page 38 of the above PDF (Figure 6. Average Time Spent In Vehicles and Miles Traveled 2001 and 2009 NHTS). In 2009 miles, the # of miles traveled is ~30-40 while the time spent is ~60-65 minutes.

Page 16 for 2009 says average vehicle trip length (miles) is 9.72 miles.
Office of Highway Policy Information (OHPI) – Highway Finance Data Collection

So, for many folks, a Rav4 EV w/range that meets the needs of somewhere over 97% of trips is good enough.

100 miles if you're lucky?

Tony Williams put 130 miles on a charge on his rental Rav4 EV, including some highway driving at 85 mph (!) before buying one. See My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread.

The current range queen got 175.2 miles. See Toyota Rav4 EV Forum • View topic - 200 Mile Club (321.9km): Longest Unrefueled 175.2 miles.

Nissan has passed the 25K mark on Leafs in the US which have WAY less range than the Rav4 EV. And, they passed 50K worldwide awhile ago ( Nissan Passes 50,000 LEAFs Sold Worldwide).

Yes, EVs are niche vehicles, but how long is your car idle and doing nothing? What is it doing when you are at home and are sleeping? What is doing when at work?