Plug-In Supply DIY

On a related matter - has anyone else experienced symptoms with the PIS system confusing the Prius MFD & or fuel gauge? For example, our MFD was showing 99.9 mpg @ 170 miles. Then, after 70 miles in blended/regular hybrid mode, it shows 62 mpg. Doing that math yields 33 mpg for the 70 mile segment. And that's assuming the minimum mpg for the prior 170 miles, since we don't really know what it was above 100. So it's clearly not right. And while the fuel gauge has been a little wonky for awhile, consistently showing less fuel than the car really has (starts flashing Add Fuel when there's still 4 gals left), it now appears to be even less accurate than before. Anyone got similar experiences?

We're still trouble shooting inconsistent operation of the PIS (been in for about 2 weeks), but it's mostly working, and works well when it does.

 

I'm back to report some progress on my Plug-in Supply DIY installation. Since the first delivery was missing the rear controller (on back order), I just installed the front. I had the contactor and cables for the the battery HV hookup but without the controller, I would have had to leave the left portion of the battery case open and seat partially removed. Robb promises me the rear controller next week.
The front install wasn't difficult and could have been done in an hour. PIS doesn't seen have any DIY instructions on their site specific to their own system (just a bunch of old stuff from others on EV button insalls). So I spent time reviewing from some online searches. I'll do my own write up when I'm finished with the whole system.
There was not directions on where to install the Front Controller, but observing the length of the TryEV wire, I concluded it would have to be under the center of the dash, just below the small storage compartment. (comment: the box is kinda deep and "clunky" looking. It looks like a shallower box would have worked/looked better. Might change that!) I only had to pull the center kick panel under the dash, lower glove box and right vent to do the entire Front Controller install. Plus the left driver and passenger door sill tim to run the comm cable to the rear controller.
I ordered a Y connector for the OBD2 connection.
Then yesterday, I ordered the 76 CALB CA40Ah batteries. They are in stock at Pamona CA and I should have them next week, or so.

I'm still making some progress w/ caution!

Steve

 

On the same topic, I'm in the middle (beginning?) of my PIS DIY installation. Before I went out and purchased a ScangaugeII, I discovered the post on here about the Torque Pro, Android. Since I have an Lenovo A7 tablet, I gave that a try with just the Prius Gen2 (pre-conversion) and it seem so work well with the custom PIDs and appears to be easy to write others that may be needed to monitor the add-on packs. I know that Torque Pro has some dazzling displays but I think I want to do some data logging and I see that features is in there someplace.
I'm going to post on the Torque Pro thread, when I get farther along and have something to monitor and log.

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

The AH of the PHEV battery pack is calculated by multiplying the traction current (which is the total current drawn from OEM and PHEV) and time. I have not tried using the Torque Pro so I cannot say whether it can do the multiplication or not. It may be worth asking USBSeawolf2000 by PM.
Below is the simple basic program I use to calculate the PHEV amp hours for my Duinomite Mega.

 

One of the Hymotion Prii owned by A123 has had intermittent gas gauge issues, showing more gas than is really in the tank, but I never noticed this causing problems with mileage calculation. That car is a 2008. Filling the tank with the ignition on seems to confuse it at times, but not always. This problem led me to discover OOG mode accidentally on a trip once.

Not sure where you're located. Is it possible you were stuck in traffic for a while and exhausted the OEM battery, causing the engine to recharge it while more or less sitting still? Or were driving ~80 mph for that blended segment? Rain/high winds? These could all explain the 33 mpg number without having a malfunction.

 

My upgrade is completed and working fairly well. There are a couple of operational glitches which are being addressed and should have answers shortly.
Florida PHEV-200 10KW UPGRADE | PriusChat
Pat.

 

Thanks - no, none of those conditions apply. Was all in gentle rolling hills, no traffic, moderate temps in 60s/70's, no rain/wind. Driving those same roads since consistently yields 100+ mpg with the PIS, and generally yielded 50 mpg prior to the PIS. So the MFD computer was clearly confused.

 

What size is your pack (in usable kWh's) ? We're looking into a setup for our 400h.
thx

 

Update, May 2013. We are getting closer to having a DIY solution, but writing an installation manual is not as easy as you think, since the audience skill level varies so much. We will also work with Prius enthusiasts near Boulder or willing to come to Boulder for direct training.

Our system is based on the OrionBMS which has many excellent features, including real time visibility into the PHEV battery pack via Torque (Andriod) or a Windows Laptop. We've had a few customers upgrade from PIS systems and they love the Orion based feature set. One great feature of the Orion system is it can completely replace the Gen2 OEM Hybrid battery so if your Prius is high mileage and your NiMH battery is pooched you don't have to fix that first.

 

Hi Paul,

The Orion BMS has the equivalent of the PIS ECM which you call the HEM.

I prefer to have a PHEV system that will allow me to fall back on the old reliable OEM NiMH battery when things go wrong with the PHEV system.

 

Actually to clarify the PIS ECM is similar to the Orion HEM. The Orion folks were first to implement this method. Their (patented) solution was then copied/reverse engineered by PIS.

That is a good strategy for reliability. However, contactor based systems will eventually harm the OEM NiMH battery since what happens is the OEM SOC drops low then the contractors close and 150+amps floods into the NiMH battery. Over time the NiMH battery will not perform as well because of the added stress of the inrush current. If someone wanted a piggyback system, the Orion system will work with contactors and the OEM battery on Gen2 Prii, but I don't recommend it for the reason above.

 

I did not know that Kiety is a reverse engineer. I doubt it very much.

You only ever see 140 amps for a fraction of a second and then the current is only around 100amps at most. Considering that the NIMH battery is designed to take 100amps continuous durng regenerative braking until SoC is too high I think your theory is BS.

 

You can think whatever you like, and do whatever you like, but based on my direct experience (I've installed over 100 PHEV conversions since 2007) contactor based PHEV cars have NiMH batteries fail much sooner than stock Prii. In 2-3 years feel free to report on the health of your NiMH pack.

 

I would like to see statistical proof. You could be right but I think it would most likely be due to exposing the NiMH battery to a voltage in excess of 242v for too long which is higher than the equivalent SoC of more than 80% which will definitely shorten NiMH battery life. I can see how dumping 76 Lifepo4 cells into a NIMH would do this which is what PIS does. I only dump 70 lifepo4 cells.

Let's do the maths.

76 cells x 3.35v = 254.6v PIS

70 cells x 3.35v = 234.5v my BMS+ using A123

Even if after charging I had a resting voltage of 3.4v that equates to 70 x 3.40v = 238v

 

I don't have scientific proof of what we've seen over the years, only anecdotal evidence.

But I do agree with you on your calculations...234-238V should stress the NiMH pack less when the contactors close so you should see less degradation of the NiMH pack over time.

 

So you are a dealer for Orion and Ewert?

 

The dissemination of the knowledge on Plug In Hybrids has not been a easy path to follow as well. Not to single you out. However Enginer, Plug in Supply, Plug in Solution, Ewert, and PICC all went forward with complex concepts with advantages and disadvantages.
Enginer .......bms quality issue and overcharged Lifepo4
PIS ......PIS both filed court cases in Cali
Ewert....orion ......very expensive
PICC.........Brusa charger and fire in Cali.

You and Enginer never made mention of overcharge issue of battery packs.

 

We are a systems integrator selling a complete system that uses the OrionBMS from Ewert Energy as a significant component of our system. We've never sold OrionBMS on its own, although I guess we could if we wanted to.

 

Anyone working on a Gen3 Prius conversion other than PIS? I like the idea of completely replacing the HV Battery in the car with a bigger pack.

 

We (www.boulderhc.com) have a couple of products for Gen3 Prius. However, they are "piggyback" systems to the OEM battery. Our 10kwh Gen2 system can replace the OEM hybrid battery.

If you (and your car) live in Colorado our PHEV products are a great deal.
As far as I know nobody has a Battery Replacement System for Gen3.