Prius vs Volt: 55 miles & 3,000' Elevation 4 days a week:

No Leaf in the equation?

 

Want a LEAF, love my PiP, like the Volt a lot, but in this case, would probably recommend the Volt. Lots of great incentives on it right now, better EV range, while still having a gas engine as backup. Unless a dealer will let you do the run in an LEAF, I would be worried about doing an uphill run, that long, on pure EV (meaning it will cost you more than 55 miles). The PiP will probably only do EV going downhill, unless the grade isn't that steep.

If he can afford it, also take a look at the RAV4 EV (heck here is a list of other EVs with specs I'm working on).

 

You said he likes to drive like a bat out of hell. All efficiency aside he would enjoy driving the Volt better. A lead foot isn't going to work well in a PIP.

 

Answer is simple.. see if they will let him take a 24 hr test drive and see what he likes.
Of the two seems like the volt will all him to be EV all the way (assuming it was 55miles R/T) or would use less gas in if its 55miles each way. And if he drives agressive will probably like the volt.

I'm with danny in that a Rav4 EV might be very an interesting choice -- its a good value given the incentives. The Leaf might be viable given he can charge at work. Good prices there too and maybe cheap enough to let him keep the Gen1 for longer trips.

 

If it is 55 miles each way, the Prius may be the better option. When in hybrid mode the Prius is much more efficient than the Volt. Fifty-five miles would be approaching the break-even point. Also 12 hours at 120 volts will not fully recharge the Volt, so he would not get the full EV distance on the return trip.

 

All depends on the grade, because going uphill in the Prius in EV can easily trigger ICE, plus if he gets to charge more 12 hours, the Volt can capture more energy in those 12 hours than the PiP can.

I'm still sticking with my original recommendation of trying the RAV4 EV, you're in CA, it should be the first option on the table (I have to say that, since I am not in CA and am jealous since I can't get the RAV4 EV in my NY garage).

 

I rarely ever drive my PiP now that I have the Rav EV. Pip is only used for trips longer than 80 miles.

On a standard charge you would comfortably be able to complete that 110 mile round trip without charging at work.

Oh, and 0-60 in less than 7 seconds is amazing. Let alone all the room the Rav has over the Volt.

Between the Pip and the Volt, for this drive, if he can live with the small trunk and rear bucket seats, go with the Volt.

 

Huh ?

the break even is beyond 120 miles and the Volt fully charges on 120 volts in less than 10 hours.

 

Here is one of the first Plug-in Prius videos I checked out

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He starts a compare to the Volt at about 10:30. At about 12:00 he mentions his commute of 53 miles with hills. He reported 68 MPG in the PiP and 40 MPG in the Volt. I did not notice any mention of whether he recharges at work. An interesting point that he makes about the PiP is that on the down hill side a regular Prius will top off the battery about 1/5 of the way down, while the PiP will continue to recharge all the way down. This ends up adding to the EV range. It may be that the Volt does not do this, at least to the extent that a PiP will.

In double checking, the Volt provides two charging rates for 120 v. The default rate recharges in 16 hours, the higher rate takes to hours. Apparently getting the higher rate requires a "4-step ‘dashboard dance’"

 

It's clear from the video and from the claimed results that the Volt in that scenario is not charging at work and is only charging overnight.

I thought he did a good review, overall, of the plugin Prius although he exaggerated the power of the larger electric motor by saying it was 100 HP when it is really closer to 80 HP and it can only be driven by the Prius Plugin battery pack at around 50 HP peak (the Volt EV capability is 150 HP peak). He also made a ridiculous argument about how it was somehow an advantage that the Prius Plugin finishes charging quicker at 120v (because it has much less capacity) while failing to note that it charges quite a bit slower than the Volt at 240v. Yes, the 2013 Volt defaults to charging at 8A at 120v and you need to touch the center console 3-4 times to switch to 12A. OMG!

The real winner, however, was the claim that they were getting 20 miles of range on the Volt battery but were getting 11-12 miles on the Plugin Prius on presumably similar terrain (he said this was on another Volt driving a commuter pattern on highway 280, presumably US 280 in the San Francisco area). I've driven both my Volt and a Prius Plugin over that same terrain. That's total BS.

He also claimed they were getting 30 mpg on the Volt but 50 mpg on the Prius Plugin or, in other words, 67% better hybrid mpg. Total BS. Sadly, I'm not surprised since he's an editor at "The Truth About Cars".

The real truth is that the Volt and Prius Plugin have roughly the same EV efficiency when driven within the EV capability of the Prius and the Prius Plugin's real-world gas efficiency is around 35% better. Isn't that good enough bragging rights? Claiming 67% is absurd.

As I noted in a recent post on another thread, I drive a similar round trip commute. In fact, through random coincidence, I drove to work and back today on US 280 (usually I drive on US 101) for a total trip of 108 miles or about 54 miles each way although my trip was not an exact mirror each way. I drive conservatively and I can partially charge during the day.

I charged a little under one hour at 240v in the morning and about 3 hours at 120v in the afternoon or probably a little over a half a charge or 7 kWh at the socket.

Overall, I drove 108.6 miles on .73 gallons of gas for total of 149 mpg (not 40 mpg...) . 33.5 miles of the total trip was driven in hybrid mode at 46 mpg.

I drive mostly 55-60 mph. As an experiment next week, I'll try driving with the flow of traffic which is sometimes closer to 70 mph.

 

I'm pretty sure I found the experience of the other "Truther" that this guy references in his video. It's from a review of the Ford C-MAX Energi plugin car in January of this year.

Review: 2013 Ford C-MAX Energi Plug-In Hybrid (Video) | The Truth About Cars

The review is from the Editor of the The Truth About Cars and he makes some weird claims:

Well, he got the 2013 Volt number right. The Plugin Prius usable capacity is about 2.7 kWh (61%), not 4.2 kWh (95%). I don't know what the usable capacity of the Energi is but it certainly isn't 7.2/7.6 kWh or 95%.

Ok, he doesn't say what the EV/HV split was during his 120 mile round trip commute but for lack of anything better, let's use his HV-only numbers from above.

Remember, he's doing this commute on highway 280 which has rolling hills as it follows along the top of the Santa Cruz Mountains range separating the cities along the SF Bay from the Pacific Coast.

Prius:

120 / 72 mpg is 1.67 gallons of gasoline.
1.67 x 52 mpg is 86.67 miles HV
120 miles - 86.67 is 33.33 miles EV or 16.67 miles per full charge

Okay, the EV miles look high (16.67 vs. 11 EPA vs. the 9 miles he reported earlier in the article) and this is with solid 52 mpg vs. 50 or so EPA.

Energi:

120 / 60 mpg is 2 gallons of gasoline
2.0 x 40.7 mpg is 81.4 miles HV
120 miles - 81.4 is 38.6 miles EV or 19.3 miles per full charge

The EV miles look reasonable (19.3 vs. 21 EPA vs. the 16 miles earlier in his article). The 40.7 miles seems roughly consistent with what other drivers of the C-MAX report. EPA says 41 mpg highway.

Volt:

120 / 45 is 2.67 gallons of gasoline
2.67 x 34 mpg is 90.67 miles HV
120 miles - 90.67 is 29.33 miles EV or 14.67 miles per full charge

The EV miles look very low (14.67 vs. 38 EPA vs. the 29 miles earlier in the article) and this is with his estimate of 34 mpg vs 40 mpg EPA.

The Volt numbers that he claims are much worse than the Prius and Energi numbers -- they are worse even relative to his already low earlier HV-only Volt mpg and EV-only range estimates and so much worse than EPA estimates. They are also much worse than any numbers I can imagine getting.

Something is wrong with his numbers. They just aren't believable. Next week I will try my best to reproduce them.

 

Today's drive to work....

I was unable to get my usual partial charge at work this morning and I made a choice to avoid any other partial charges during the day. Therefore, my only charge for the day's driving was overnight before leaving for work in the morning.

My drive into work was a total of 61.5 miles on highways 280, 880, and 101 starting in San Francisco and ending in the middle of Silicon Valley.

Starting from home, I drove about 3 miles through local SF hills before getting on highway 280 and driving 65-83 mph generally with the flow of traffic and with little congestion before rush hour fully kicked in. Along the way I ran out of battery and switched to hybrid mode burning gas. The final couple of miles into work were on city streets so I drove a total of about 55 miles on the highway in the morning.

After being parked 5 hours at work, I drove 3 miles on city streets for lunch at a local restaurant. Then I drove around doing errands at several stores for about 12 miles on city streets. Later I drove back home again on 280 at similar 65-80 mph speeds with only some occasional modest traffic congestion.

I would guess my average highway speed in to work and then back home again today was 70-72 mph. My city driving was at posted speeds and with the flow of traffic.

Climate controls were set to "fan only" since temperatures are mild this week.

With the uphill driving and faster speeds on 280 I only got 31.4 EV miles on battery while driving this morning. If I drive my usual slower speed of 55-57 mph I can get 42-44 miles of EV range on the same route (in part, because I can make it back down to Flatlandia again in the valley).

After the gas engine started, I drove another 30.1 miles on .67 gallons of gasoline (44.9 mpg) in to work. My afternoon driving in hybrid mode between work, my lunch, errands, and home again was another 72.2 miles on 1.68 gallons of gas at 42.98 mpg.

The total drive today was 133.7 miles on 2.35 gallons of gasoline and a single overnight battery charge. My total hybrid mode driving was 102.3 miles at 43.53 mpg. My total mileage for the day was 56.89 mpg.


The bottom line:

Single overnight charge
70-72 mph avg highway speed

31.4 EV miles
102.3 HV miles
133.7 total miles

2.35 gallons of gas
43.53 HV mpg
56.89 total mpg

Later this week I will try to more closely recreate the "Truth" reviewer's 120-125 mile drive with a full battery charge at each end and only nominal city driving (no errand running).

Based on today's results I expect to get roughly 80-90 total mpg on 1.5 gallons of gasoline. The reviewer claimed to get 45 total mpg.

We'll see......

 

FWIW I'm starting to see my average FE now that things have warmed up and I can charge at work.

With my 49 mile freeway commute (one way) in the morning I get between 58-63mpg depending on how fast I drive (60-65) and where I use my EV power.

On the way home I am getting 85mpg-95mpg.

This puts me at 70-76mpg average usually.

This isn't a 3000' elevation gain but its still big at 1200'.

 

what is that in gasoline per day (or week) ?

 

I'd have to figure that one out. I drive a lot and have to fill up at least once a week (500-600 miles). I usually fill up on Tuesday or so then have to fill up again on Saturday because of long trips. Refills are usually 8-9 gallons or so.

I only get around 52-60mpg on weekends because of our long trips and high speeds as well as a single charge.

 

The math says 98 miles /70mpg =1.4 gallons.. (98/73 is 1.34 gallons) per day, or about 6-7 per week.

 

One of the carry overs from so much EV driving and knowing my own benchmarks for kWh per trip (fairly fixed route) is that now I am doing the same for my ICE vehicles when I drive them. I use torque and see if I can reduce the gasoline consumed rather than using mpg as a proxy.