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Florida PHEV-200 10KW UPGRADE

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by wa4eqw, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Just about finished.JPG Almost finished and the pack is working great. Got 12 miles on the residual charge. Now charging the depleted pack (244 volts) ... should be fully charged by midnight.

    Charging.JPG Charging... Note the 4 new cells have not caught up yet. Have pulled the plug and will run them up again.. shouldn't take too long now. The test meter that you can't read is sitting on top of the old perspex cover... (I wouldn't want to get across the pack... it's currently reading 281 volts).
     
  2. go2alexander

    go2alexander New Member

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    Hi Pat,
    Before I did this I consulted Robb, read a lot of forums and also called the producer of these cells in China.
    Cell types: Winston WB-LYP40AHA from production serie 2011,
    The cells were never used, and never fully charged, the MiniBMS has drained them dead in 2 years.

    Here are the steps I made:

    Recover one cell at a time
    I used a LAB power supply so I could adjust voltages and current of the power source.
    In the beginning I connected the power supply to only 1 cell at a time. Plus to + minus to 0V.
    The voltage of the power supply was set to 3,6V DC. And at the start I always set the current to 0,1 A.
    As the cell slowly began to charge, the voltage on the Power supply slowly climbed up.
    At the moment the voltage was above 0.5 V I raised the current up to 0,5A, at 1V up to 1 A and above 1,5V up to the maximum (that was 2A). It took about 30 minutes before the cell was above 2,5 Volt. I repeated this until 4 cells were above 2,5Volt.
    Then I connected a normal 12V car battery charger 17A over these 4 "half recovered" cells and charged the 4 cells at ones for about 80 minutes. Afterward these cells had a charge of about 3,3Volt each.
    This worked fine but it took more than 8 hours to recover 16 cells.

    Battery recharging.jpg Battery recharging2.jpg
    Pictures 1 cell at a time

    Recover 16 cells at a time
    After doing this I borrowed a professional LAB power supply from a friend that was able to provide up to 60V at 3A. With this I started to recover 16 cells in one string. I turned the voltages on 16 x 3,6V= 57,6V DC.
    I also monitored all the cells if the voltage was rising equally. And because the voltage over the different cells arose equally I could recharge all the 16 cells at ones. I repeated the procedure with the charge current: slowly at the start and then increased the current at the moment the cell voltage increased. Charged each 16 cells for 30 minutes and afterwards I used 2 car battery chargers to further charge the cells for 15 minute with 17A (4 cells per charger). In that way I could recover 16 cells each hour.

    At the moment all the cells were above 3,3V, I connected the Plug-In Supply Elcon charger and charged all the 76 cells together. Of course controlled by the PIS rear controller and MiniBMS system to avoid overcharging.

    Battery recharging 16 at one time.jpg Winston battery.JPG
    Picture 16 cells at a time

    charger mount 1a.JPG Charger mount2.JPG
    Charger mount in Prius Gen 3
     
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  3. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Thanks Alexander... That was just the information that I needed. My 4 new cells didn't catch up with the rest and from your information, I can now use a 12v 10a charger to finish the job. I am back in full PIS PHEV operation again and going over to K-mart to pick up a 12 volt charger.... It will come in handy for the small 12v Prius auxiliary battery too.
    Pat.
     
  4. go2alexander

    go2alexander New Member

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    Hi Pat,

    Best is to leave the MiniBMS on the cells.
    So the shunting will be active if one of the cells reach the maximum voltage.
    One advice, don't leave the charger on when you are not there. Stay with it and turn the charger off as soon as one of the BMS goes into shunting or even better monitor the BMS communication loop wire. As soon as that is open, stop charging. (the miniBMS has a normally closed loop, at the moment this signal is broken by one of the MiniBMS controllers the voltage is to low or to high).
    Good luck with it.
     
  5. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Wish I had seen this before I took a nap. Will take a trip tomorrow to run the pack down. The four cells that hadn't caught up are now the first ones to come on and hit a little over 4 volts. They are now the first ones to light the red LEDS now. Will have to drain them. Looks like the 12 volt charger worked too well. The mini BMS boards are all in place.
    Pat.
     
  6. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    Thanks for your description of how to recover totally flat cells. Did you recover the full capacity of 40AH?
     
  7. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    Yeap, I have one permanently installed with the Elcon charger. So everytime I charge my PHEV battery I also charge the 12V aux. battery at the same time.
     
  8. go2alexander

    go2alexander New Member

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    Damn Pat, thats not good! cells that reach 4Volt are probably toasted. I would advice to very slowly drain power out of those 4 cells until the voltage per cell is within battery range. For example my cells need to be below 3.8 Volt. Ones again, be very carefully with the cells! Don't discharge them with large currents (use something that draw about 0,5 or 1 Amp).
     
  9. go2alexander

    go2alexander New Member

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    Hi Lopezjm2001,
    It looks like my cells are completely back, but I can only be sure as soon as I have tested the pack when driving. At the moment with no engine connected the Voltage stays high. Fingers crossed that it will all works fine.
     
  10. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Yep... I did that... Nearly had to change my pants when I saw that voltage but the cells were recycled ones. I will get more spare ones during our trip this summer when I don't have to pay the $50 freight cost... (that's almost 2 cells).
     
  11. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Well, You may have read in my post to Alexander what happened... and that kind of lack of attention is exactly why it was so necessary for me to upgrade from the old (76 cell in one box) to the new arrangement of 19 cells in 4 high impact polymer boxes. 1. I can handle the cells by myself. 2. It is infinitely safer. (as someone pointed out to me, I was able to reassemble the entire pack in my living room in bare feet without killing myself). 4. Each 19 unit battery pack has a Fuse Link halfway down the pack so that if a short circuit should occur, the shorted pack will be reduced to MUCH safer levels for the ones with the blown fuses. and 5. If you consider (heaven forbid) a rear end impact on the car, the system has been designed to crush and break the center pack (4) fuse links rendering the entire pack (semi) safe.

    Joyce and I will be taking our usual test run to Captiva Island today and that is around 40 miles of mostly EV driving. We have a fully charged pack and that usually means we can complete the round trip using minimal gas. (4 miles at 45 mph or less, 3 miles (1 1/2 x 2) at 55 or less and the rest at 35 mph or less).

    I want to thank Robb for the Plug-In-Supply new modular pack design and for being available both by eMail and cell phone to answer my questions, even when he was doing an installation in Maui. It's simple to assemble (or reassemble) and relatively safe and truly is a way for the average person with an average set of home tools to convert or re-convert (in my case) a Prius.

    Pat.
     
  12. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Nice breakfast at R.C. Otter's on Captiva Island. 99.9 mpg for 33 miles, then front battery display went from green to blue... a little early I thought. At the traffic light 4 miles from home, I re-initialized and it went full green once more for the 4 miles left and it's still there indicating that there is still more juice in the 10kw pack than in the Prius pack.... Hummmm need to consult with Robb. Still pretty good though. Back to "Just sipping gas around town".... Yaaaaaay!
     
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  13. boppo

    boppo Active Member

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    Captiva island what a nice place, good luck on your test run.
     
  14. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    That is exactly the system that I upgraded from Alexander.... The BMS boards were designed by Dimitri of CleanPowerAuto.com in Tampa (150 miles North of me) and the rest of it is from Robb at PIS in California. The new upgrade is sure a boon to me since I don't have a cherry picker to lift 300+# . My 76 cell pack seems to have settled down now..all cells now within a couple of hundredths of a volt with the pack at rest.
    Pat.
     
  15. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Leveling the Pack.JPG I needed to raise the packs a little to clear the heads of the bolts holding down the Prius HV pack. Just using a couple of 1x4's finished lumber. That raised the PIV pack just enough.

    Pack Leveled.JPG This is it... just have to put the labels on and it will be finished. :)
     
  16. vinny1575

    vinny1575 Junior Member

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    Odd Question. Does Dimitri work for Enginer now? I spoke to a Dimitri at Enginer a few days ago.
     
  17. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Don't know. List time I visited Dimitri here in Florida, he was owner of CleanPowerAuto.com.

    Pat.
     
  18. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Final wrap up from one happy camper.

    Labels Applied.JPG To steal an old phrase from RCA, "The quality goes in before the name goes on".

    Ready to cover up.JPG Ready to cover up

    Rear Carpet, netting and cover in place.JPG Carpet, netting and top cover in place.

    Buttoned down - Tested and Ready to go.JPG Buttoned down, tested and ready to go.

    Just as Pretty as when we bought her.JPG Just as pretty as when we bought her. A totally reliable 2006 Prius at our retirement "Doll House" in Fort Myers, Florida.

    Once again, the credits: (Alphabetically)-
    Thanks Dimitri of CleanPowerAuto.com for the BMS design. The four new cells that I was worried about completely recovered and balanced with the rest of the pack after the 4th charge.

    Thanks Robb of PlugInSupply.com for a 10kw PHEV system that really works... We rarely use gas around town and for local trips. Definitely 100 mpg locally and a total pleasure to upgrade to the new 4 bank system.

    Thanks Steve (imwoody) and all at AutoBeYours.com for their absolute mastery of Prius reconstruction. Steve sold me PHEV-200 in March 2011 (which has proven to be totally reliable) complete with the original 10kw PIS PHEV pack which he, Jenny and their crew installed.

    I am not new to high energy engineering, having a patent for a high pulse cable breakdown device (affectionately known as "Grandmother Killer") but I really appreciate the "hand holding" from Dimitry, Robb and Steve by emails and phone calls and personal visits, keeping my 10kw system working. I would have been in a mess without them.

    Pat. wa4eqw :)
     
  19. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    This is the result of approximately 10 charges and discharges. Using "Top Down" balance with all mini BMS signalling leads disconnected. The charger maxed out at 288 volts and switched off. The battery pack was tested at rest and is 266 volts.

    Testing Balance.jpeg Testing Balance

    Secretary Joyce.jpeg Secretary Joyce (Wife)

    Plastic Spatula 1.jpeg Separating the bottom boxes for easy insertion of the top cover.

    Pampered Chef.jpeg The proper use of a Pampered Chef pie cutter.

    photo 1.JPG Bank 1 cell readings

    photo 2.JPG Bank 2 cell readings

    photo 3.JPG Bank 3 cell readings

    photo 4.JPG Bank 4 cell readings.

    Just about perfect balance.

    Pat. wa4eqw
     
  20. wa4eqw

    wa4eqw Member

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    Thanks for your concern Alexander... I got lucky and must have caught the high cells and cut them off just before they went into avalanche mode and caused a possible "plasma event"... Dimitri's Mini BMS actually saved the day. All cells are now balanced as you can see from the last posting information. Phew !!!
    Pat.