PIP Mileage deterioration

no offense sbeb, but you have a complete misunderstanding of the car and system. if you spend just a little time reading the faq, you will be a much happier, well informed consumer. if you don't, shame on you, you will continue to feel let down. either way, all the best!

 

Tell us what you mean by "11 miles of EV range" to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Do you really want that entire distance with the engine off in consecutive miles or is the engine running briefly someone in the middle acceptable?

MPG is still be disregarded as a benefit too. Even when the engine runs, you get EV-BOOST where efficiency is much higher as a result of using the plug-supplied electricity.

Don't forget that the "11 miles" is only in warm temperatures. All batteries lose both capacity & efficiency when used during the cold season.

Lastly, don't forget that the A/C will consume electricity too. That will shorten range.

There's a 100% chance of that. The estimate is a dynamic value, always adjusting based on your recent driving.

My first long-distance driving trip, the value plummeted since I couldn't plug in while on the road.

When winter changed to spring, I watched the estimate go up. From spring to summer, it went up even more. In my fall, it dropped. In the winter, it dropped even further. Now that it's warming up again, the value is going back up.

That's what the estimate is supposed to do. It reflects the conditions.

What good would it be if it never changed?

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Lastly, if you'd like to see the actual battery charge-level, rather than the estimate, purchase an aftermarket gauge.

I use both a ScanGauge and a bluetooth adapter (ELM327) which interfaces with an app (Torque) on my phone.

Each can show you the SOC (State Of Charge) value. Both will display 85% when recharging is complete and 23% when the EV capacity is depleted.

So rather than relying upon an ever-changing mile estimate, you have something that should always be the same.

 

You know that if your climate control fan is on, it will drop the EV range estimate too, right? Your explanation of 11 something miles the day after reset and 13.4 the next morning sounds like your fan/AC was on the day before, but not on when you left the house the following morning, hence the 13.4.

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You have an incomplete understanding of how the EV miles number works. No one knows the exact mathematical algorithm (except Toyota). But it is some kind of moving average. I do not think that it considers at all your current usage per mile. It recalculates from history each time you recharge to full (my guess). When it gets reset all it does is delete "your personal data" and replaces with some factory defaults, which makes it read about 13.4 miles. If your personal driving, route selection, weather, elevation change, bad luck at lights, etc cause you to go only 10 miles on a charge, then the moving average is going to slowly but surely go down to 10 miles.

The dealer doing the reset did nothing to the car's battery or drive train.

The real questions are:
- how fast are you going most of the time in EV
- how far can you actually drive in EV
- how many kwh is a full charge
- how far is your typical drive? Do you go many miles in HV as well? Or mostly EV only?

Initially, you need to ignore the number on the display, especially now that the moving average type of calculation has been reseeded with bogus factory information (rather than your real data). So, instead of focusing on the EV range each day after you charge you should be keeping track (for example with trip A odometer) how far you really go when the ICE starts up.

Mike

At most you might see a 0.1 miles drop overnight...mostly due to rounding errors in the conversion to miles. This is easy enough to observe. Charge when you get home. At 10pm go check the car and start it and see what the EV miles is. Check again in the morning. At least 50% of th time you will see no difference...unless there is something wrong.

Mike

 

I left the car sit idle for 10 days while fully charged and came back with no appreciable decrease in range. SOC was
84.7% when I left and 84.3% when I got back. I do not recall what the EV range was, however.

 

MY EV ESTIMATE HIT 11.0 THIS AFTERNOON!

That's great timing. After seeing 10's all year long, the return of warmer temperatures is causing the value to climb again is a very welcome sight. And of course, threads like these are becoming a pain without any "UP" ones to counter the claims.

It was mighty close to 11 yesterday. Just leaving the parking spot and rolling down 2 levels in the ramp bumped it from 10.9 to 11. But today after unplugging, it said 11.0 miles without even moving.

I can't wait to see 12's return. In the meantime, I hope we can get something constructive out of this particular discussion. It sure would be nice to come up with something informative & helpful for new owners.

 

i don't know john, we haven't had a fish like this in awhile, not sure anything constructive is going to come of this, but i'm always hopeful. i have a feeling it's the ee thing holding him back, it's been a problem with other threads. sometimes, ignorance is bliss.

 

So then we should change the description of many of the car salesmen we have heard about here to them being "full of bliss?"

 

exactly! they are, aren't they? and their bliss is our misery.

 

Not only that, but they get PAID for it!

 

Sadly, the salespeople contribute much to the post-purchase regret. Many don't have the experience to properly answer customer questions correctly. There's lots of opportunity for assumptions too.

Everyone is better off being well informed right from the start.

Though even with that information, some won't stubble across it until afterward.

Yup, we're doomed.

 

Cold temperatures change the estimate a lot.

What is the temperature in your area? Chances are that the PiP is cold these days so the estimate will go down again compared with the "factory default estimate". However, when the temperature will rise, you will probably get back your original estimate. (Or even better estimate like some PiP owners have experienced. Especially if you already know how to get a great mileage out of a Prius)

The most important fact is that your battery has not lost any capacity. My PiP too has a reduced estimate because of winter (it stabilized around 9 Miles) but I constantly beat the estimate every day that temperature goes up. I can't wait for ever warmer temperatures.

But reduced winter range is not unique to the PiP and other plug-ins. I always had a better mileage with my 2nd gen Prius in the summer than in the winter. That's not different with the PiP EV Miles. Neither is it with a non-hybrid car for that matter.

 

I'm not sure if that is exactly true. In the previous Prius models (I had every one of them) I think that the "first" time the ICE comes on it has to warm up to a certain point before it will shut off...the power button being the only exception. Subsequent triggering of the ICE due to using the heat will shut off the ICE if you turn off the heat (because the ICE and catalytic converter are already warm)...but after minor differences in this from Gen 1 to 2 to 3 I'm not 100% sure.

In any case, with the PIP if you just turn on the fan at low speed with the temp set to LO you will see the miles remaining drop 10-12% without the ICE coming on. Yes, just the fan can make the miles go from 10 to 9. Turn the fan off and it goes from 9 to 10 again. It is a very dumb approximation...any use of the fan means 10% less miles...which, of course, isn't accurate at all.

Toyota could fix all the complaints by having a display that shows kwh remaining and kwh/mile since last charge. All the data is there already. They are trying too hard to make it easy for people too scared to learn what a kwh is.

Mike

 

more bliss!

 

Hey John,

Do you have the SG and the Torque app working simultaneously?? I have a ScanGauge hooked up and I'd like that app running too. Did you use the SG brand of BT adapter? I see several types on Amazon.

*Sorry if this gets in the way of this thread!

 

I've used both at the same time. Most of the time, it's just the SG that I use though. The BT adapter (ELM327) is always plugged in regardless. Nicely tucked into the underside of the dash at the end of the splitter (which fits suprisingly well, despite the cord bulk) is a good place to keep it.

I'm hoping frustrated owners will seek out information sources like what the aftermarket gauges offer. Seeing that real-time data as you drive provide a wealth of insight about how the system actually works.

 

1) This is actually the THIRD version of the Prius Plug-In. It IS the first one that has been available for purchase by the general public.

2) After tax incentives, it's about $1k more for a Plug-In Base than for a comparably equipped Prius III, or Plug-In Advanced than for a comparably equipped Prius 5. That's not much of a premium, IMO.

3) I won't get into your misunderstanding of the EV Range Guess-O-Meter, as that has already been more than adequately explained.