Prius may not save as much as you think...

Have you ever considered the report possibility that people might buy the Prius for a reason OTHER than to save money?

Anyhow, if you're not bothered about the $6,000 saving, then send it my way

 

That is because KBB does not recognize there is a wide range of car owners:

• <8,000 miles/year - driveway art
• 8,000-15,000 miles/year - light duty commuters
• 15,000-22,000 miles/year - heavy duty commuters
• +22,000 miles/year - road warriors

If you don't drive much, get driveway art and make it pretty. But when an owner has to drive for a living or have a significant commute like the heavy duty commuters and road warriors, economics drives the Prius decision. Since the annual fuel costs were constant, it looks like KBB did not factor in the increase in gasoline prices over time. If the cost of gas would just stay constant.

Let KBB fool the gullible as their victims having less does not impact me keeping mine.

Bob Wilson

 

The fuel savings for high mileage owners is easily a car payment. As for the other expenses:

• ordinary cars also have 'smart keys' that are not off-the shelf at WalMart
• 12V batteries also have a cost and wear out for ordinary cars
• transmissions fail and the HV battery is just part of our transmission

I'm trying to suggest the per-mile, overhead costs are not that different so enjoy the gas savings. But think about the life of a retired couple living on a fixed income.

If the fixed costs of both cars is the same, the couple with the Prius can take a trip to visit family and eat a hamburger, refuel, and drive home. The couple in the fancy car will have to give up the hamburger and put aside money for the return trip gas.

Bob Wilson

 

Smart key system isn't Prius specific. There are other vehicles, including non-Toyotas and non-hybrids that have similar systems. Nissan (for instance) calls theirs Intelligent Key. You can bet that replacement keys and reprogramming the car to recognize them isn't cheap either.

 

Your logic is rather strange and ridiculous!!!

Are you saying that if we are not using Prius but an ordinary car, we DON'T have to pay traffic tickets, insurance, registration, tax, parking, maintenance, car wash!!!???

 

If you double the mileage (I drive 30,000 miles a year pretty consistently) how do the numbers look?

I agree that if you are just going to park it in your driveway, you can buy any car. Those saving big money on a hybrid are drivers.

Now look at my avatar, I USE the hatch! I do not compare my mileage to a Nissan Versa (for example) but to a Subaru Forester (for example) as I need all that hatch for my business. This means the 40 MPG I get with my v compares to 23 MPG with an SUV, not 33 MPG of a tiny car.

As an aside, this Prius is the most powerful vehicle I have owned since 1977, and the biggest! Not sure how you define luxury but it is full of gadgets. It is way more 'comfortable' than the wife's 'anti-prius', (Chevy Tahoe with tow package) none of the folks I drive to the Doctor can even get in her rig.

 

The most powerful car I've ever owned was my former 287 hp 04 Nissan 350Z. For a little while, I also had an 255 hp 02 Nissan Maxima. It was one of the most powerful FWD cars for its time.

For awhile, I thought, "ok, my next car must have 200 hp at min." Now, I'm just driving my 110 hp Prius and still want a ~107 hp Leaf as a second car. Whenever I drive my mom's Altima Hybrid (has 198 hp), it feels almost like a rocket ship vs. my Prius...

 

MotorTrend estimates the TOC for a 2010 Toyota Prius III is $31,150



Used 2010 Toyota Prius III Hatchback Costs, Depreciation, Ownership, Insurance, Maintenance & More - Motor Trend Magazine


One's own total cost of ownership can vary significantly.

For example, my real TOC is much less because I got a discount on my initial purchase( I bought my Prius during the runaway toyota affair when the dealers were motivated sellers), I also paid cash for my car so I don't have any fiance charges to speak of, Toyota was offering a 2 year Toyota Care package which drop maintenance cost to zero for the first two years, and I'm hypermiling so my estimated annual 12,000 miles fuel cost is about $300 less per year for my first two-three years. The used car dealer sale price (and the Truecar estimated value) of my 3rd gen Prius is $20,000 to 20,500 in my area ( I paid $23,500) so my initial depreciation loss over the last three years is about $3,000 to $4,000. The KBB and Motortrend insurance estimates is about right at about 1200/year.

BTW: my previous car was a 1990 Honda Accord LX Automatic 4 door sedan which I bought in August of 1990 with 13 miles on it for about $13,700. I got an average of about 22 mpg on it and I drove it for about 180,000 before switching over to a 2010 Toyota Prius III which I bought in April 2010 for about $23,500. For the last three years, I've been travelling about 11,000 per year and overall getting about 60 mpg. I've cut my fuel cost by about 66 percent over my Accord and about 50% over a conventional gas vehicle like the 2010 Hyundai Elantra Touring. Even with gasoline averaging about $3.50/gallon - I'd estimated my saving from switching from the Accord to be 317 gallons of gas/year (1,109.50 per year) and from a conventional vehicle (28 mpg) to be 210 gallons of gas/year (735 per year).
And if gas prices shoot up again - the fuel savings will be higher.

 

i'm always amused by people who trade in their current vehicle for a prius to save at the pump. they never seem to take in the cost of new purchase. 'i just spent $25,000. and took a bath on my trade in, but now it only costs $30. to fill up instead of $75.' like bob w said, it all depends on how much you drive and of course, the price of gas of time of ownership.

 

I bought 2 Prii and car purchases since for a number of reasons.
In no particular order:

I prefer to front load my purchases to lower my ongoing costs. Personally I find it easier to budget the one time up front cost. If I can afford that, and then lower my ongoing costs that is a big plus.

I may not be able to fix the trade deficit myself, but that is no reason for me to contribute to it, and gasoline is a huge contributor (was even bigger when we bought our Prii).

Ditto for the environment.

The cost of gasoline goes beyond what you pay aat the pump. Due to our reliance on imported oil, we send our military all over the world. I refuse to contribute to putting our soldiers at risk if I can figure out a way not to.

Love the technology and I am happy to support companies that use it well. I also am happy to do my small share in showing the technology off and aiding in its adoption into the market. I think of it as a reward to companies willing to take the risk.

The Prius was the best car that scored high marks on all of the above at the time of my purchases. It is still certainly the least expensive that still scores good, to high marks in all those categories.

 

KBBs TOC type of financial modeling is only appropriate when buying a car new.

Buying a car used (as you did) eliminates most of the depreciation losses of the first year and thus makes the KBB model inappropriate.

Auto Insurance you have to shop around for - but like automobiles - insurance cost do vary
Auto Maintenance prices can vary too - often an independent shop will charge less than a dealership.

Traffic tickets, registration, tax, parking - that's your local government at work -
if you live in a democracy and you don't like it - then it's your own fault
if you live in a republic and you don't like it - it's some other guy's fault
if you live in a dictatorship/feudal kingdom and you don't like it - it's tough beans.

 

My local bank is giving out 0% interest and I see inflation eating away at the real purchasing power of my money in the bank. I can spend it or let inflation slowly destroy my savings. Hmm but what about other financial vehicles? Most of my Wall Street investment took a nose dive during the 2007-2009 Great Recession (the exception has been my international investments) so overall putting my savings there hasn't helped either. Real estate is pretty flat in my area, too. So what is a good investment that would keep up with inflation???

One way I thought was to spend money to make or save money.

With increasing energy cost I could spend money to make my home or my car more energy efficient - I can use my money to compensate for inflationary pressures on energy.

When energy prices jump up people scream how horrible it is but when energy prices slowly creep up -- less people notice the increasing cost. I suppose if the earth rapidly becomes really hot - people will tar and feather all those anti global warming lobbyists BUT if the earth just gradually gets a little hotter each year until the oceans boil over - most people won't realize they are dying until the very last moments of their life.

 

I wouldn't hesitate tp buy another Prius if I was in the market for a another vehicle. Toyota has created, maintained and increased market share, legacy, and owner retention. This can't be said for other hybrids, especially the Volt.

DBCassidy

 

walter, I find your approach refreshing in that your taking into account inflation and hedging fuel inflation as part of your Prius decision. I have seen a few analysis though that indicate fuel is actually less expensive now when using inflation adjusted dollars.

I struggle with some of the same decisions but I give cash a significant premium over non-liquid and depreciating assets. As someone once pointed out, cash is king, and when non-liquid assets are distressed you can buy them with less cash.

 

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REPLY :

You make many erroneous assumptions about a 2010 Prius Buyer like myself.

I fully intend to keep the Prius far beyond 5 years, more like 15 or 20 and the quality of the car insures that is both possible, and wise to do with a Prius. The prices for gasoline continue to escalate returning more and more savings over time. In my case my employer paid 100% of the 3 year lease payements, gasoline, insurance sales tax, registration costs, the entire cost of the vehicle and they would not have done that for a less fuel efficient and non-polluting vehicle, so right away I own my new Prius after a 3 year test drive that cost me nothing and I get to purchase it at half price as a lease buyout. (I leased it for 18K a year) So for me and others the car is more than just another car. As to your bogus assumption about the more luxurious and faster car . . .The Prius qualifies me to ride alone in the HOV lane during the rush hours, saving me untold hours of creeping through traffic in my much, much slower, and far less fun to drive car that must plod along with the stop & go 'Herd' of traffic. This made possible as with my employer, because the Prius is cleaner, more efficient and the political powers decided they needed to encourage More people to own these excellent cars. ( how much Fuel Tax per gallon in your state, I pay that much less in taxes for every gallon I do not have to buy, that you do)

IF I had decided to sell the car Used, a Prius commands a very high resale value, so again the 'Other' car you imagine I would find more enjoyable to own, comes in with a lower return on investment.

Then there is the truth that I thoroughly enjoy the car, find it comfortable and more than fast enough when I need it to be, and capable of carrying both people and cargo, thanks to the fold down rear seat and hatchback design beyond most other cars I have owned. Oddly enough like the beloved old VW Beetle the quirky appearance of the car endeares it to we who own them, and the obvious enthusiasm and pride we take in that virtually overflows here on the Prius Chat Forums. FYI, Consumer Reports just discovered, and reported, that the Toyota Prius is, " The Best Value for Your Automotive Dollar, unseating the Honda Fit, which has held the title for the past Four Years, our analysis shows." Consumer Reports Magazine February 2013 Issue

So you'll have to forgive us Prius Loving Owners for ignoring your flawed analysis and opinion of our much loved Prii, and don't let the door hit you on the way out !

 

Lesson to the OP. Don't ever post anything from someone like KBB that is critical of the Prius or you will be chastised as a traitor.

Prius owners don't come to PC to learn as much as they come here to get stroked.