2001 Prius with P3006 problems - road trip capable?

Leaving on a trip with a marginal car usually ensures: the car will break on the road in an area where hotels and motels are expensive; parts are either not available or 3x-5x the regular price, and; the joy of driving is replaced by fears from every 'strange' symptom. You may want to re-read the sticky about who should own our older cars and map it against your profile. There is something to be said for sleeping in ones own bed while the car is at a trusted, local mechanic.

I used to have a 1966 VW MicroBus but it was large enough to have a bed, tools, and spare parts. So when the fuel-pump tossed the feed pipe, the engine quit and I parked on the side of the road. With my tools, I effected a quick fix and continued my trip. But I am my own mechanic and don't mind dealing with problems on the road.

Bob Wilson

 

My replies to your question list:

1. If my HV Battery fails, will the car still drive (just with less power running on the ICE only)? Barely. The gasoline engine does not have sufficient low-end torque to adequately power the Prius without help from the traction battery and MG2.

2. I'd like to take this little guy on a road trip, about 1200 miles each way. You would be asking for trouble along the way. Should you decide to do that, keep your cell phone charged and be ready to pay a big towing charge.

3. Will I still have reverse if the HV Battery fails? No.

4. Am I causing more harm to the HV Battery by continuing to drive it, or does it really matter (meaning the HV is toast anyway)? It doesn't matter, since the battery needs to be replaced.

5. I'd prefer to keep the car, sounds like a reconditioned HV would be about $2000, so it may not be worth it. Yes, the market value of the car may not justify incurring a four-digit repair bill.

 

I was thinking about this on the way into work. If you said:

​

I'm going to carry the replacement traction battery in my car with metric tools and screw drivers to replace it when it fails by the side of the road because I like to do these things in whatever the weather may bring and with no chance of anyone else being involved.​

Well I would say at least you are prepared . . . not wise . . . but you know what you've signed up for.

Now if you plan to travel to a place with an excellent, independent, Prius shop and have arranged for a battery repair . . . this at least shows some planning even though it is a risk. Just be prepared to try and find a Uhaul and car trailer (est. $1,000+gas) to carry the car to the end of the trip when it fails. Patrick has experience in this area and I do not.

I will differ a little with good Prius friend Patrick in that I don't know your financial situation. If you have the ability to replace this car with 2004-09 model or 2010-2011 used or even start with a new one, that would be the preferred way to go. If you are not comfortable with being your own mechanic, well this is not the car (nor any other high mileage, no-warranty car.)

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

[devils_advocate]
So where else are you going to get a almost like new car that was meticulously maintained for $2000? Put in a re-manufactured battery. Drive it until dies. I drove a 1989 Toyota Corolla All-trac until 2009, then donated it to a lady with 3 children under 4 and no job who's husband left her.
[/devils_advocate]

 

(Having driven between the Bay Area and the Seattle area a few times) I definitely wouldn't drive your car w/the problems you note.

How about getting a used car w/some some warranty left in the $12 to $15K price range? Some automakers give pretty good warranties if the car is certified (Certified Pre-Owned Used Vehicle Programs). But, you'll have to buy a from a dealer and it being certified == price premium.

 

This is perfectly fine and a well expressed, risk analysis. There are no guarantees in life but long trips with a known failing car is an invitation to a bad experience.

I have not personally gone through a traction battery failure. I know that it starts small but never gets better. Since you are on the West Coast, I would recommend phone calls and discuss what is likely to happen with:

• Lucious Garage, San Francisco
• Arts Automotive, San Francisco
• Ari's, near Los Angeles ?
• ReInvolt, North Carolina, 3 hours earlier than you

Each module has six cells but typically one cell begins to fail and then fails hard. It then becomes a heat source, converting charge and discharge to high temperatures and gas. This begins to cook the adjacent modules and they soon go into marginal and failure. But failures can come in different variations and scenarios. Consider yourself lucky to get an early warning.

In theory, you can 'nurse' the car by letting it cool between short trips. But this is akin to holding firecrackers, lighting the fuse and throwing. In 99.99% of the cases, no problem but the prospect of having a firecracker go off in one's fingers . . . not good.

My understanding is the steering assembly warranty was extended to December 2013. I don't think the nut replacement automatically replaces the steering but your mileage may vary. This is where having a Prius aware scanner gives you the same information to pursue a correct negotiation and result . . . not guarantee their action but be informed.

With older cars, there is no guarantee. There are things you can do to reduce risk but nothing that drives it to zero:

• lubricant changes - this reduces internal, friction generated heat, the enemy. Obviously engine but there is also transaxle.
• coolant change - another source of failure as there are reports of a 'jell' forming, probably from aluminum salts. There are two, the engine and the inverter coolant loop.

This is where you might get a good recommendation from the known, independent, shops. However, David Taylor at ReInVolt might be able to pass your contact information to one or more of their customers in your area or close-by. I saw my first ReInVolt pack by helping a local boy who lives 50 miles South of Huntsville swap out his pack. A first time for both of us, it took about four hours.

Given the weight, I consider it a two-man job but one can do it. Just you have to have a place to do the work (i.e., a roof or bay.) Any general mechanic can handle the job, it does not require special tools or training.

Many areas have 'rent-a-bay' shops where you can take your car to work on it. Ask Mr. Google?

The only person I know of is in Canada and goes by the username of "orangeboy" who swapped his transaxle. Doing a Google search for anything recent, I found:
2001 Toyota Prius NHW11 battery swap

In this case, it looks like someone did it 'outside' . . . so it can be done but best within walking distance of one's bed. Do it over a long weekend.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

Some of the links at Failed traction (HV) battery, what to do? - Prius Wiki may help. Finding and replace bad modules sounds like it's a case of whack-a-mole.

 

I like the idea of getting a salvage pack and working on it.

. . .
Question there is how much assessment can you do easily on a used HV Battery.
- Can you pull of the cover easily and look for corrosion or damaged connection? - Yes, but it is heavy. A hand cart is pretty much required if you don't have a strong and patient friend.
- Is it pretty easy to buy a simple voltmeter and measure the levels of each module to check that they are within tolerance? - Yes but fixing any imbalance is not so simple.
- do these batteries have a point where nearly all of them fail? like 200,000 / 250,000 / 300,000 miles, etc? or is it more variable than that? - More variable but higher temperatures and hills tend to put more stress on them than flatter terrain and cooler temperatures.
- is it true that a wreck that causes no visible damage to the rear or the HV Battery is still likely to have damaged the internals of the battery? - No, as long as the case is not damaged.
- is it true that the battery will have problems if the car sits for a month or two without being used? - They tend to store relatively well but when you start talking about years, all bets are off.

You'll be able to see what is there; diagnose and fix any defects, and; reassemble a balanced pack. Folks here are ready to help but you'll need a smart charger (est. $125-150) to do the job right. Like many things in life: Good, Fast, Cheap, pick two.

Bob Wilson

 

Let us know the final decision and the outcome.