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Plug-In Prius: real winter driving

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by john1701a, Nov 12, 2012.

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  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    For those of you where the daily high doesn't get above freezing (32°F, 0°C), this is the thread to share your plug-in experiences. That's real winter, especially since the chemistry of lithium batteries reacts different than it does when temperatures are above freezing.

    22°F was what I was greeted with this morning, along with a fresh blanket of snow concealing a slippery layer of fresh ice. It was the first true taste of winter for me with the Prius PHV.

    Jumping onto the 70 mph highway was as expected. When I pushed the button to start up the blower on the windshield, the engine fired up. Naturally, it took longer to warm up. But the speed of which was very similar to my 2010, but with much higher MPG.

    At the 9-mile mark just before the speed limit drops to 55 mph, the traffic had come to a crawl. The Prius simply switched to EV mode as I approached. To my surprise, the engine fired back up when the coolant dropped to 145°F from the 159°F it has been at 70 mph. My guess is the battery-pack was still wasn't fully warmed up yet. Normally, it stays off until 114°F when ECO is engaged.

    I shut off the defroster, which caused the engine to immediately shut off. To my delight, the light warm blowing you get with the system "off" was plenty to prevent the need to use the heater itself. That was great, since I chose to get off the highway to take a back route the rest of the way. EV was available until I ran out of electricity, which I took full advantage of. The windshield stayed clear for about 15 minutes.

    When I got stuck in the next traffic back up, there was only 0.4 mile of EV remaining. So, I pressed the HV/EV button to warm the coolant and recharge the battery-pack a bit. That worked out well. My commute that would normally take about 25 minutes was looking to take over an hour. Blah.

    Upon reaching the ramp and avoiding the slip & slide activity others around me had engaged in, I was delighted to see an outcome of 104 MPG.

    It was a very good first winter driving experience with the plug-in.
     
    #1 john1701a, Nov 12, 2012
    DianneWhitmire, Jeff N, Tideland Prius and 2 others like this.
  2. Andyprius # 1

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    Thank You John, that was fascinating.
     
    #2 Andyprius # 1, Nov 12, 2012
  3. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    A few questions John...
    Do you grille block? If so- lower and upper?
    I'm assuming by your location you run with snows- what brand & how did they perform?
     
    #3 ny_rob, Nov 12, 2012
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Lower grille is totally blocked. Upper is open. Put pipe-insulation along the inside hood edges.

    No snows, just the factory tires.
     
    #4 john1701a, Nov 12, 2012
  5. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    Really? Are you going to try that for the whole winter?
     
    #5 ny_rob, Nov 12, 2012
  6. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    The winter is not here yet but we got a taste of it when Nor'easter brought snow.
     
    #6 usbseawolf2000, Nov 12, 2012
  7. Big Dude

    Big Dude Member

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    Be interesting for me. I live in Wisconsin and only have a 4 mile one-way commute. I don't really want to freeze and I don't expect the coolant to warm up by the time I get to work. Will it heat plugged in?--don't think so. What about seats? My gen. 2 barely gets 40 MPG in 0 degrees. What is your best guess of what I'll get in WI winters? What is the best strategy for short commutes? 4-5 miles@ 35 MPH in winter? Advanced
     
    #7 Big Dude, Nov 12, 2012
  8. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    My commute is 2.7 miles to work so I don't think EV is going to be an option for me b/c of the short trip to work. With my 2010 prius (no longer have) my MPG for a month was about 35MPG in dec. jan. feb.
     
    #8 priuskitty, Nov 12, 2012
  9. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    I had a 2005 Prius in wisconsin for seven years (winters) no snow tires. Never was stuck! just use a little comon sense, no problems! Also averaged 46.3 mpg for life time of car.
     
    #9 retired4999, Nov 12, 2012
  10. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Heated seats works very well. That would be your best bet. If you need to use defrost, the gas engine will come on but you'll still get the EV-BOOST benefit.
     
    #10 usbseawolf2000, Nov 12, 2012
    lensovet likes this.
  11. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    4-5 miles? not enough distance to take advantage of EV, ICE would still be on during that 4-5 miles
     
    #11 priuskitty, Nov 12, 2012
  12. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    He should still get a lot higher MPG than a regular Prius would get (35-40MPG). My guess would be at least 50 and maybe 75 MPG.

    I have made a 2 miles trip with the defroster turned on by mistake. I turned it off right away and the ICE shut downed after the warm up. I got 68 MPG. I made the same trip in HV mode (before I was able to plug on) and got 38 MPG.
     
    #12 usbseawolf2000, Nov 12, 2012
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    This will be my 13th winter driving a Prius in Minnesota. Never have I felt the need for snow tires. Perhaps outside of the metro area a person would, but I certainly haven't in the burbs. It's either been factory or all-seasons.
     
    #13 john1701a, Nov 12, 2012
  14. ukr2

    ukr2 Senior Member

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    priuskitty,

    If your commute is only 2.7 miles, you'll be EV all the way, unless you turn on the Heater.
    Get a 12vdc Defoger and you got it made !!!

    From Harbor Freight -

    [​IMG]
    12 Volt Auto Heater / Defroster with Light
    - item#96144
    Sale: $14.99

    WAIT - I just read the review of the above Heater, NOT GOOD.
    Fuse blows and switch breaks.
    So get a better 12 vdc Heater.
     
    #14 ukr2, Nov 12, 2012
  15. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The drive home today was intriguing. Most of the snow & ice had melted, but the temperature had dropped to 27°F.

    I left the ramp and drove about 2 miles in EV mode. That totally defied what antagonists had claimed was possible, which I found quite pleasing. At the base of a very steep and very long hill, it was a great opportunity to take advantage of the engine. So, I did. When the coolant hit 119°F, the EV/HV button I had pressed to start the engine was pressed again to indicate I wanted to go back to EV as soon as warm-up was complete. The engine shut off immediately. Huh?

    I had expected the engine to continue running until the coolant hit 130°F. I'm not sure why it stopped sooner. No complaints about that though. The remaining drive was about 1.5 miles, all in EV with the seat-heater on high.

    My shopping was lengthy, around 35 minutes. The coolant had dropped to 71°F. The next destination was about 1 mile from there, including a steep uphill climb. This time, the decision was to see what the EV would deliver. Sure enough, got there using only electricity.

    The next destination was also with EV, the coolant temperature now at 64°F. Next at 58°F, it too was all EV. Now at 55°F, the hope to remain in EV was effortless. It drives very well in the cold. That was impressive to experience. I finished shopping. It was a long drive to the highway, wanting to travel with only EV until the battery-pack was depleted.

    Sure enough, I ended up getting over 10 miles of all EV driving. That was sweet, especially since the outside temperature had dropped to 25°F and the coolant only 31°F. It was a very nice introduction to real winter driving.

    The total journey was 40.5 miles. It consisted of 2 full recharges. The overall average came to 85 MPG.
     
    #15 john1701a, Nov 12, 2012
  16. Big Dude

    Big Dude Member

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    Amazing and encouraging. Keep the anecdotes coming for those newbies in the cold climes.
     
    #16 Big Dude, Nov 12, 2012
  17. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    using a hand ice scraper is cheaper AND uses no EV! the 12 vdc heater uses EV, probably a significant amount.I need at least 6.0 miles EV per day. So, using the headlights and the 12 vdc heater would "eat" into my available EV mileage in the cold weather. (which would be lower in colder weather):D
     
    #17 priuskitty, Nov 12, 2012
  18. Andyprius # 1

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    It's puzzling as to why the car is in EV one moment and HV the next and vica/ Versa, one can attach seemingly logical reasons, but they don't always pan out. It's impossible to predict a particular performance. But, even tho the ICE is coming on, unwanted, it doesn't really affect gas mileage. Even if you might have 3-4 short bars, the majority of long bars (100mpg) make up and compensate. Another interesting phenomena is in wanting to return to EV, often you will not be allowed to until the car ( computer ) is ready. But should you go to EV before the car is ready, it will shortly go into EV and show this on the monitor. WHEN, it is ready. The question is, what makes it ready? Is it coolant temp? Johns last post showed that coolant temp may not be the final determinant . At the end of his trip he had some low coolant temps, but car was still in EV. What is the criteria and how do we control it?
     
    #18 Andyprius # 1, Nov 13, 2012
  19. slcMPG

    slcMPG Member

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    Here is a little bit about the Gen 2 Five Stages of Prius Hybrid Operation

    http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/five-stages.txt

    We also have to worry about the Battery temp. So, it is best to end charging as late as possible in the winter. I think we are figuring out the the ICE will start if the Battery is below 32F.

    I will get my scangauge setup up and start tracking temps.
     
    #19 slcMPG, Nov 13, 2012
  20. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    I don't think using your headlights, the seat heaters or this 12VDC heater will eat all that much into your available EV range. The headlights in a base PiP only uses about a 0.5 amps, or about 100W, if that. The two seat hetaers on high only pull 0.5 amps, or about 100W together. That 12VDC heater will only pull 180W max. That's 400W total. It's a drop in the bucket compared to that fact you use at least 4000W just cruising along in EV mode. You pull way more than that just getting going from a dead stop, or going up any sort of incline.
     
    #20 devprius, Nov 13, 2012
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