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Open Letter to Puente Hills Toyota (CA)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by fshagan, Jan 15, 2006.

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  1. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

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    --- An Open Email to Julie at Puente Hills Toyota ---


    Julie,
    Please review the quoted emails below. On 1/9 you responded to
    my original query with a quote matching my request for a 2006
    Prius Package 3 for $23,966 and promised a "haggle and hassle
    free purchasing experience". On 1/10 you emailed and asked if
    you were in the ballpark with the quote. On 1/13 you emailed
    me saying you had three Package 3's in stock for me to look at.
    You referred me to another "Internet Manager" because you were to be
    out this weekend. I called and talked to Tsow, who indicated he was
    the internet manager, and he verified he had three. I asked if
    Puente Hills Toyota marked up the MSRP, and he said no, you don't
    mark it up. I asked if he could hold the Classic Silver one for
    me to get there that evening, and he said your policy was not
    to hold it. So on a Friday afternoon, I took a half day off work,
    drove from Oxnard CA 100 miles and three hours through LA traffic.

    Imagine my surprise to find all the Package 3 Prius to have the
    dealer added chrome wheels and leather seating, and a $4,000
    adder to the MSRP for these items.

    In discussions with Tsow, and another manager he called out, I
    learned a few things. One, Puente Hills Toyota ALWAYS adds the
    leather and chrome wheels to the Prius because everyone wants them.
    Two, I was asked what I didn't like about leather (as if that was
    the point). Three, I was told that the chrome wheels couldn't
    be removed, but we could negotiate on price on the adder. Four,
    I was told that while you don't "mark up MSRP" you do require
    people to pay for options you add, as that is "only fair."

    "Fair" is not a word I would use to describe my experiences with
    Puente Hills Toyota and the "Internet Fleet Department", which unlike
    most Internet sales offices, still engages in the common sales games
    of "standing room only" closes, bait and switch tactics and lies to
    sell its cars.

    Needless to say, I won't be buying a car from Puente Hills Toyota.
    I'm close to abandoning the brand if this is how Toyota is training
    their Internet Fleet Departments. It is not how I am being treated
    by the other manufacturer's Internet Sales Departments, who are indeed
    showing me I can have a "haggle and hassle free purchasing experience."
    I have also posted this as an "open letter" on the internet bulletin
    boards to warn other Internet buyers of your practices (I will
    munge the email addresses so you don't get spammed ... not a sign of
    affection, I assure you, but I do have my own standards I won't
    violate.)


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <[email protected]>
    To: <fshagan>
    Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:10 AM
    Subject: RE:Re: PUENTE HILLS TOYOTA INTERNET FLEET DEPT.


    > HI Frank,
    >
    > Thanks for the email. I do have the Silver and Seaside
    > pearl with package 3 in stock please let me know if you are
    > interested and when you can come by. Note I will be out of the office
    > this weekend , but my director can assist you. His name is Tseshani
    > Reed. just give him a call at
    > 626 964-7100 ext 370
    >
    > thanks again
    >
    >
    > Julie Derby
    > Internet Sales Manager
    > > ***All Internet Quotes are valid for 24 Hours and are valid through
    > Internet Dept Only***
    >


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <[email protected]>
    To: <fshagan>
    Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:07 PM
    Subject: PUENTE HILLS TOYOTA INTERNET FLEET DEPT.


    > Hi Frank ,
    >
    > What do you think about the quote I sent you? I welcome
    > the opportunity to go over the details or any questions
    > you may have about your new Toyota Prius
    >
    > Are we in the ballpark?
    >
    > When you are ready to come by for a test drive please
    > contact me to ensure you receive a haggle and hassle free
    > purchasing experience.
    >
    > I will meet or match any written price quote you bring with you.
    >
    > I look forward to hearing from you!
    >
    > Sincerely,
    >
    > Julie Derby
    > Internet Sales Dept. Manager
    > Puente Hills Toyota
    >
    > Julie Derby
    > Internet Sales Manager
    > ***All Internet Quotes are valid for 24 Hours and are valid through
    > Internet Dept Only***
    >
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <[email protected]>
    To: <fshagan>
    Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:40 PM
    Subject: PUENTE HILLS TOYOTA INTERNET SALES DEPT


    > Hi Frank ,
    >
    > Just received your request for pricing and information on the
    > 2006 Toyota Prius you are interested in. I'm Julie Derby,
    > Internet Sales Mgr here at Puente Hills Toyota and it will be
    > my pleasure to assist you. The Prius , will come with the
    > following options:
    >
    > MECHANICAL &amp; PERFORMANCE
    > Hybrid Synergy Drive System
    > 1.5L 4Cyl DOHC 16 Valve w/VVT-i SFI Eng
    > Elctrnic Cntinusly Variable Trans (ECVT)
    > Electronic Power Steering System
    > MacPherson Strut Front Suspension
    > Torsion Beam Rear Suspension
    > 15" Alloy Wheels w/P185/65R15 Tires
    > Front Disc (14") and Rear Drum Brakes
    > SAFETY
    > Dr &amp; Fr Pass Advanced Front Airbag (SRS)
    > Traction Control (TRAC)
    > ABS w/Elec Brake Force Dist &amp; Brk Assist
    > 3 Point Seatbelts w/ALR/ELR Pass Belts
    > Side-Impact Door Beams
    > Rr-Seat Child Restraint Systm(CRS) Lower
    > Anchors &amp; Top Tether Brackets (LATCH)
    > Direct Tire Pressure Monitoring System
    > EXTERIOR
    > Multi-Reflectr Halogn Auto-Off Headlamps
    > Dual Clr-Keyd Pwr Heated Outside Mirrors
    > Chrome-Type Finish on Front Grille
    > Rear Spoiler
    > COMFORT &amp; CONVENIENCE
    > Auto Climate Control w/Air Filtration
    > AM/FM CD with 6 Speakers
    > Push Button Start
    > Remote Keyless Entry &amp; Engine Imobilizer
    > Cruise Control
    > Liquid-Crystal Multi-Info Display Panel
    > w/Energy Monitor, Fuel Consumption,
    > Climate Control,O/S Temp &amp; Audio Status
    > Tilt Steer Wheel w/Climate &amp; Audio Cntrl
    > 60/40 Split Fold-Flat Rear Seat
    > Variable Front &amp; Intermittent Rr Wipers
    > Heavy-Duty Rr Window Defogger w/Timer
    > Pwr Door Locks &amp; Wndws w/Dr Auto Up/Down
    > Adjustable Front Shoulder Belt Anchors
    > Cntr Console &amp; Dual-Compartmnt Glove Box
    > 2 Auxiliary 12V Power Outlets
    > Cargo Tonneau Cover &amp; Undr-Floor Storage
    > Overhead Console w/Map Lights
    > Fabric Cloth Seats
    > 50 State Emissions .........................
    > Package #3 Includes: Rear Backup Camera; ...
    > Smart Key System; AM/FM CD w/6 Speakers, ...
    > Aux Audio Input Miniplug, and MP3/WMA ......
    > Playback Capability; Driver and Front ......
    > Passenger Front Seat-Mounted Side ..........
    > Airbags; Front and Rear Side Curtain .......
    > Airbags ....................................
    > Carpet Floor Mats & Cargo Mat
    >
    > YOUR PRICE IS 23966.00 PLUS TAX AND LICENSE.
    >
    > When you are ready to come by for a test drive please
    > contact me to ensure you receive a haggle and hassle
    > free purchasing experience. PLEASE NOTE THIS PRICING
    > IS ONLY GOOD THROUGH OUR INTERNET SALES MANAGERS.
    > SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT YOU CONTACT US PRIOR TO COMING
    > BY TO SECURE YOUR PRICE.
    >
    > Thanks again for your time
    >
    > Julie Derby
    > Internet Sales Manager
    >
    > PLEASE NOTE ALL QUOTE'S ARE GOOD FOR 7 DAYS:
    >
    > Julie Derby
    > Internet Sales Manager
    > ***All InternetQuotes are valid for 24 Hours and are valid through
    > Internet Dept Only***
     
    #1 fshagan, Jan 15, 2006
  2. tustin

    tustin New Member

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    I too had a similar experience with that dealer. Was told on the phone by their internet sales dept. that they were selling at MSRP only to find chrome wheels and leather add-ons were required after I arrived at the dealer.

    I bought a car from Claremont Toyota later that day after they tracked down the package & color I wanted and had it there a few hours later. Next time I'll ask for the sticker price on the car and compare with MSRP before I drive to the dealer.
     
    #2 tustin, Jan 15, 2006
  3. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

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    They simply lie. I expect that from a salesman on the lot, because so many of them are scum, but all of the cars I've purchased through Internet Sales Departments are more like fleet leasing for my company. You have the specific car in mind, you email or call them, they locate it, you go there and its the car you wanted, and you buy it. The last two cars I was in and out in 45 minutes, not including the "orientation" on the car, but including inspection of the vehicle, test drive, finance and taking delivery. THAT is how the Internet Sales Departments are supposed to act.

    Its interesting that you had the same experience. That verifies what one of the people I talked to there said, that they ALWAYS add the leather seats and chrome wheels. I wasn't sure which one of the three I dealt with was the lier, but it is obviously Julie in her email to me, quoting a price she knew she could not keep.
     
    #3 fshagan, Jan 15, 2006
  4. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    What part of this is NOT a written price quote?
    > YOUR PRICE IS 23966.00 PLUS TAX AND LICENSE.

    And when has it become legal to go against written price quotes. I mean, it's not like someone there can claim that their web developer hasn't updated the site this morning because she's sick or that yes there are rebates but in the fine print you can see that the Prius is exempt. This was WRITTEN IN AN EMAIL!!

    That's just horrible.
    I'm sorry to hear about your experience with them. Unfortunately, there must be enough people out there who are supporting this type of behavior by purchasing the cars even with the non-optional mark-ups.
     
    #4 TonyPSchaefer, Jan 15, 2006
  5. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    seems to me, you should have slapped that email down on the table...

    This is what you said you had...

    This is the price you said I could buy it for...

    Get the shop to bring that one around front....


    Chrome rims? Not on the list, so they must not be on the car you quoted to me... feel free to leave them on or take them off, but for me, the price is still 23966..

    Leather.. is acceptable, but also not on the list that you told me I could buy... feel free to leave it on or off, but the price is 23966.

    at that point, it's going to do you no good... but it would be worth my 100 mile trip to look the managers in the eye.. all the way to the top guy and tell them that they are a lieing a$$hole and that you are putting up a web page to post the entire transaction for the world to see.. and that you'll recommend against them to anyone who will hear you out.
     
    #5 daronspicher, Jan 15, 2006
  6. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    This is not how "Toyota trains their internet sales managers".

    Each dealer is independent and the individual ethics and business practices show.

    If you want to have a nice drive back, call Howard Sheehy, the Internet/Fleet Manager at Kearny Mesa Toyota, 4910 Kearny Mesa Road, San Diego, CA 92111 ph: 858-335-5815, email: [email protected]

    Tell him Mary with the Black Prius with the big "owie" sent you from Priuschat.

    Howard will tell you exactly what they've got on the lot. Tell you what you want and he'll find it for you. I'm sure if he knew you were driving three hours and over 100 miles to come look at a car, he'd hold it until you showed up. It's not like if you didn't show up they'd be stuck with a car for months.

    Kearny Mesa Toyota doesn't add on anything you don't want and won't charge more than MSRP. They have been excellent to deal with. They also do a big volume so can get more cars than some of the dealers, although maybe not as many as Carson. But they don't mark them up either. And they don't add any options until AFTER you buy. They'll add whatever you want, but you pay AFTER you buy for ONLY what you want.

    Remember not to buy the extended warranty (unless they can match Troy's deal), protectorant, alarms, etching, et al the finance people will try to sell you. Finance is separate from sales. Howard is good to deal with.

    Tell him Mary with the Black Prius with the big "Owie" send you from Priuschat.com
     
    #6 Godiva, Jan 15, 2006
  7. smy

    smy New Member

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    That's horrible they did that to you. Should I or others call on your behalf in hopes of their honoing their first price, or are you completely finished with them?
     
    #7 smy, Jan 15, 2006
  8. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    While I was on the list and waiting for Priapus, I showed my sales rep Priuschat. One day I went in and he said he had been reading about the stories other people were posting about their dealers and warning people to stay away. He asked, "are you going to post about your experience here?" "Of course," I said with a big warm smile.

    Mine ended with a mostly positive experience and I tell locals to go there and deal with my sales rep. But it's nice to know that we have a network to warn and advise others.
     
    #8 TonyPSchaefer, Jan 15, 2006
  9. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    And they're really stupid to think we don't.

    I think some of them are figuring people aren't going to seek out information before they buy, but after. Of course....these are probably the self same dealers that are using sales tactics that are fifty years old. It just don't work that way no more.

    My contact was the internet sales manager and I e-mailed him several times before talking on the phone. He knows I found him through the dealer's website and that I went to every dealer's website in the county.

    And when I got there I eventually let him know I had done my homework on the car and was a member and regular poster on Priuschat. I also gave him some cards from the local Prius club after I attended my first meeting.

    I'd like to think the stupid ones would eventually wise up and change. But I don't think it's gonna happen. There's always another unsuspecting, naive sucker waiting to be fleeced. But it sure would be nice to see their market share go way down while the reputable dealers enjoy a booming business.
     
    #9 Godiva, Jan 15, 2006
  10. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

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    Completely done. Saturday morning, the local dealer finally called back with news that the car I had ordered through them was finally going to be here by the end of the month. I had told them that I was going to look for a Prius in stock since they couldn't give me a VIN number on the car they said was coming in ... and Saturday they said they had a VIN now and were sure it was coming in.

    If not, I'll order from another dealer, but there's NO WAY I would ever go back to Puente Hills Toyota.
     
    #10 fshagan, Jan 15, 2006
  11. Begreen

    Begreen Member

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    We are getting similar runarounds and misinformation. Can't get a pkg 6 in WA state, now looking in northern CA. This is really discouraging. It reminds me of descriptions of shopping in the Soviet Union. Total indifference to the customer that is shelling out the shekels.

    I wrote up my experience on GreenHybid.com, but might as well post it here too. Misery loves company :( :

    Buying bread in the USSR:
    What do you want?
    I’d like to have a loaf of dark bread.
    No dark bread today.
    OK, I’ll come back tomorrow.
    No dark bread tomorrow. All dark bread goes to Kiev.
    What do you have?
    White bread and rye.
    Hmm, ok, I’ll take that rye bread on the shelf.
    Can not do. Promised to commissar. Try the white bread.
    I don’t like or want white bread. I would like to have rye bread.
    Ok, get on waiting list. Maybe in March we have rye bread.
    Argh. Is this a bakery? How can you not have daily bread choices.
    Hey, decisions made at bread factory. Try the white bread.
    Forget it, I’ll take a cheese and onion piroshki.
    Only for display, you take beef piroshki + blini?
    I don’t eat meat and only want a piroshki.
    No problem, you take ham piroshki with blini, right?
     
    #11 Begreen, Jan 15, 2006
  12. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

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    Evidently, they quote MSRP prior to saying they have anything in stock, then a couple of days later say "We have one!" as the bait. They know most people are at least as stupid (or trusting) as I was and will come down to see it. Then they can "switch" them.

    Technically, they never quoted THAT CAR at 23,966, but A CAR. Without a VIN listed in the email, scummy sales people can always say "Well, the one we had just left, but we have this nice little creampuff with low miles right over here ..."
     
    #12 fshagan, Jan 15, 2006
  13. tunabreath

    tunabreath New Member

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    Yes, but they're breaking the law if they do that. The January 9 email quoted a price, valid until January 16, for a Package 3 with additional options (floor mats) and includes detailed specifications for that car. I actually think the fact that floor mats are mentioned in that email is significant -- it shows that they're not just describing what "Package 3" means, but are instead describing a Package 3 with a particular set of additional options. The January 13 message refers to "the Silver and Seaside pearl with package 3", so I think any reasonable person would think that they were talking about cars configured as in the first message.

    Fshagan -- you might want to look at http://www.dca.ca.gov/legal/advfact.htm and think about filing a complaint.
     
    #13 tunabreath, Jan 15, 2006
  14. Jack 06

    Jack 06 New Member

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    I'd have gone one step farther. Those jerks cost you MONEY and, as valuable or more, TIME--- through fraud.

    You took a few hours off? Hours that could have been used as legitimate vacation or sick leave? Hours with a value equal to your current hourly pay?

    I'd have billed them for it. I'd have also calculated the cost of the gas I used getting there and back---but would have said, "tell you what I'll do. For TODAY ONLY, just pay me for my lost vacation hours and I'll forget the gas money. And if you don't REpay the money, I'll plaster this complaint all over the internet AND, if I feel like it, picket on the sidewalk in front of your place all day Sat. and Sun to let folks know how you do business."
     
    #14 Jack 06, Jan 15, 2006
  15. tullynoon

    tullynoon New Member

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    #15 tullynoon, Jan 16, 2006
  16. mnTT

    mnTT New Member

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    Sorry to hear about your experience. Not every internet department is that bad. I just picked up my #5 seaside pearl car on saturday. MSRP and only the additions that I asked for. No hassle - finance even matched the extended warrenty (+50).

    My experience with Maplewood Toyota has been great. Now just waiting to see if their service department is better than it was 10 years ago.
     
    #16 mnTT, Jan 16, 2006
  17. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    On a lark, has anyone emailed the dealer with a link to this thread?
     
    #17 TonyPSchaefer, Jan 16, 2006
  18. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    Smashing idea!

    Particularly to that chick!
     
    #18 Mystery Squid, Jan 16, 2006
  19. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    You are doing the right thing by posting on all internet sites a warning to avoid the offending dealer. It will cost them dearly, both now and especially in the long term as you will NEVER go back to them. You can go one step further as a service to your readers. When you finally do find a fair deal, be sure to post lavish praises about the fair dealer including their name so others can support honest businesses.

    I, for one, will never go to Marin Toyota due to the bad treatment I got there. I got GREAT treatment at Santa Rosa Toyota and recommend them highly. Furthermore, someone posted that Marin Toyota had changed hands, so I went there with the intent of at least GIVING them my service business. While there I saw the SAME salesmen who were so rude and dishonest to me, so I concluded the dealership may have changed hands, but it was the same old tricks in the sales force so I drove right out of there and continue to take my service to their competitor. One sale more or less does not a dealer break. Many sales can. While sales and service are unrelated departments, one must get the customer in the door to get to the service department. Remember, it's YOUR checkbook and you control the deal!
     
    #19 MarinJohn, Jan 16, 2006
  20. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    And thanks to the internet "word of mouth" isn't just the people you know or meet...it's anyone that can use the internet and do a search. In this case, people who are actively seeking to buy a prius.

    And there's NOTHING a dealer can do about word of mouth here.

    It may take a while but eventually the dinosaurs will die.

    Like I said....stupid.
     
    #20 Godiva, Jan 16, 2006
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