Please help me find the problems in these calcs so I don't go buy a new PiP My wife drives an '08 pkg 4 with 70k miles on it now. We owe $6k, kbb is $12k trade, $14k private party. I'd been planning to keep it maybe another 5 years, so that's the time horizon for the calcs. Best deal I've seen posted on a PiP is $26,488 from this dealer in Norwood, MA down from an MSRP of $33k: Toyota Hybrid Advertised Specials | Boch Toyota Norwood, MA $26,488 - $2500 federal tax credit is $23,988. Financed over 60 months at 0% is $399.80 per month if you front the $2500 for the tax credit, same as we're currently paying for the next 15 months. Wife drives about 15k miles per year, and should be able to charge twice per day. She gets 45mpg in the '08, so I'm guessing 50mpg HV in the PiP. 15,000 miles / 45mpg = 333.33 gal per year * $3.70 = $1233/yr. 15,000 miles - 12*2*365 = 6240 miles / 50mpg = 124.8 gal * $3.70 = $461.76 + 2*3.2kWh*$0.09/kwh*365 = $672 / yr. Fuel savings = $2805 over 5 years. The '08 should depreciate $8-$10,000 over the next 5 years based on kbb value of a '03/'04 Prius w/145k miles vs. current value of '08 w/70k miles. A '12 should depreciate about $12,500 over the next 5 years based on consumer reports cost of ownership estimate for a Prius IV, maybe less due to current incentives on PiP. So if we keep the current car 5 years it costs: $6,060 + $2,805k extra gas + any unforseen repairs - $4-6k residual value = $2.8-4.8k + any repairs A new PiP over 5 years would cost: $23,980 +$2500 tax&fees - $7878 net sale of existing car - $11,480 residual value = $7122, possibly less if depreciation is less due to incentive. So driving a new PiP might cost $39 - $72 per month over the next 5 years assuming nothing breaks on the '08 out to 9 yrs/145k miles? Interestingly it seems like the base Prius in the same add might actually cost more over the same period. $21,988 + $2300 tax&fees - $7878 net sale of existing car - ~$10k residual = $6410, so slightly cheaper but easily could be more without the 0% financing. Help! My wife will kill me Rob
Do it! Even at $70/month, which is extremely pessimistic (among other things, do you really expect gas to cost the same in 5 years?), you get a brand new car! Which is roomier, has a significantly better tech package (BT audio and Pandora/I heart radio access come to mind), and will get you better MPGs (I mean, you guys do drive somewhere other than work right? )
I'm confused, you came here to ask us to STOP you? I think you were looking for the Volt forums, you aren't going to get much help here Congrats on the almost-purchased PiP, you will enjoy it!
Sounds like the 08 is in fine shape, so this is not a need but a want. The numbers seem about right (did not check residuals or anything.) This is not a "saving" computation but a cost computations. But the number show you'll be increasing your expenditures by 40-70 a month for 5 years, in exchange for driving a new car. (PiP or Prius). That is a question of priorities that no one outside your family can answer. What else would you do with the 40-70 a month at about 700 a year what might you do.. take a road trip vacation, buy a computer, upgraded to HD cable, etc.. What is important to you besides the car and what does your wife want?
FWIW- When I looked up the KKB trade in value of a 2008 Prius w/70K mi (in excellent condition) it comes in at $11,495. In fair condition it comes in at $9,200 The dealer will probably offer you $9,000 to $9,500 for it.... or less. They will most likely wholesale/auction it out. When I went to trade in my 2012 Prius Five (7 month old car) with 10k miles on it earlier this month the initial dealer offer was $23,500. Meanwhile KBB shows the trade in value of a 2011 Five (they don't even list a 2012 Prius on their site yet!) it came in at $25,600 trade in- and I was offered $23,500 for a year newer car. So never expect the KBB trade in value... take 10% off it and work up from there... Anyway, I don't mean to dissuade you from getting the PIP- it's an amazing car and now's the time to get one due to all the incentives being offered! I also found our power utility company is giving a $500 rebate to qualified PEV/PHEV buyers- the PIP does qualify. Check with your utility- maybe they offer a rebate too...
After upgrading from my 06 to 12 PiP, $39 to $72 per month more is definitely worth it. I am still awestruck by how much nicer PiP is. It drives better, feels more solid and quieter. My wife loves it as well. PiP Base should have more features than the 08 Pkg4, such as heated seats and remote A/C. The 08 should get lower than 45 MPG average for the short trips the PiP will displace with electric miles. Your insurance cost will go up. I do not see that in your calculation.
I'm completely brand-agnostic, so please don't flame me folks: supposed problems with high ambient temps aside, there are some very appealing deals on LEAFs right now. If that car would fit your needs, your gas bill and tailpipe emissions go to *zero*. You may want to look at one just as a comparison. I charge my PiP a couple days a week at a Nissan dealer--they're great about it. And I'll admit, I look at the LEAF and wonder what might have been. (But the PiP is my wife's; she got the final say, and there are some great things about it for certain.)
I was actually about to buy a used leaf for $23k with 3,400 miles. But the more I researched the more it seemed like a risk with people loosing battery capacity within a year. Check out this log of drivers who have lost battery bars in the first year: Real World Battery Capacity Loss - MyNissanLeaf
Hey thanks for the analysis I was too lazy to do it. I currently pay $1400 per year on gaso so I was thinking at most $400/yr savings Here I would have to pay higher property taxes on a PiP every year...sort of like a never-ending sales tax. And apparently that tax is on the pre-discounted price. I wrote my local politico guy already as prop tax is local. There is one Bostonian here who got the price you said, but are you going to MA? PS- You would qualify for AZ incentives (lower licensing fees) but I need someone to tell me what that means $$ and cents for a PiP? Pls advise if anyone knows.
HOLD. Somebody smarter than me pointed out in another post that a car is an emotional purchase. Heck....just look at this forum! They make the Volt (arguably a fairly green car) look like a Hummer H2 in some of the threads that I've read about. So.....you want a Pip? Go buy one. Money is (still!) cheap and I expect that gas will stay north of $3.00 for much of the country for much of the foreseeable future. However (comma!) you're asking for weapons release....which means that you have doubts. You've done all of the arithmetic gymnastics help to alleviate them, and you're probably already on a spin campaign to convince the CFO that this will be a "smart" purchase. You know what? If it's smart now it will still be smart when people are out buying Christmas presents, or when the 2013's start flooding in. Since you asked the question....you have to be prepared for either answer. My advice is to keep the finger off of the trigger, but keep the weapon in battery and the target covered. Get pre-approved through a CU for the purchase. Start comparing notes from dealer web sites. Here's a thought.....start putting a little money in a mason jar to help cover TTL....or even a nice celebratory dinner with your CFO when you do pull the trigger. Good Luck!
Do it! I bought mine solely for carpool sticker Paid 40 geez Now, I absolutely love the car You can get one sub 30 ? DO IT!
Who's your utility provider? I called mine, and they aren't offering anything. I'm guessing you aren't with National Grid (but here's hoping lol).
My electric provider is LPIA (Long Island Power Authority). BTW- they charge 20cents/kWh... so they can afford to give a few $$ back to us!
Your math sounds great Rob. It seems well worth it to me. After you get your PiP, you will no longer be a "Plug in Envious" member
If the car you intend to replace averaged 25 MPG or less I think it is worth buying PIP. Your actual fuel savings well depend on a number of variables (the average number of miles driving per month, the average length of your daily commute, and opportunity to recharge between trips, etc.). In many instances a PIP may not represent a 'good fit'. Fortunately, not only is our commute to work short (8.5 miles rt), our employer just installed a charging station, 90% of our errands are completed using only EV (that may change during the winter months) and we have solar panels at home. If you were already planning on purchasing a new car in the next 6 months I think it is worth buying now considering the current incentives. We had planned on buying a plugin next summer. Best approach simply consider all cars including the PIP to be an investment. Base your decesion on the cost savings over a 5 to 8 year period. We had to buy, other car is going to our daughter. We planned on purchasing a standard (non-plugin) Prius for about 24k. Based on current performance I expect the PIP to save us ~$200 in fuel per year compared to a standard Prius. Over 5 years we should end up with a smaller carbon footprint thanks in the PIP at about the same cost as owning a standard Prius.
