Comment: Civic Hybrid and Prius are overrated

I guess if it didn't come from the minds of the "Big three" (or two or whatever is left) it isn't any good. Complaining about a great car that gets over 40 mpg (even when one tester managed to get it under 40) is sour grapes. Hybrids may not be the final solution but they sure beat anything else out there at the present time. Someday we might all cram garbage in our "Mr. Fusion" (as in Back to the Future) and have all the power we need. Until then, even if the Prius got crummy milage, it would still be a great value in an automobile.

 

I've noticed a few things about the various attack articles that have been making the rounds. First off, they've usually been filled with inaccuracies. But second, they generally lump the Prius and Civic together as hybrids, and then proceed to trash the Civic. And since the Civic is an overrated piece of junk, by extension the Prius must be too.

Just as stock brokers must now reveal what positions they hold while dispensing advice, I think these writers should state their relationships to the various car makers.

 

Well said..........

 

"We tested the car and drove as it we would any other car"

Perhaps he's just a lousy driver who guns it at every intersection and blasts the AC.

Anyway, it's detroit.com for goodness sake. Big shock that they'd have a negative article about Japanese vehicles...

Btw, how exactly does this fellow know that "thousands" of people are getting bad mileage? I'd love to see the letters he's collected full of complaints.

 

IMHO, he most definitely IS full of hooey, particularly when he states:

Not many vehicles match their EPA ratings exactly, but they usually aren’t off by more than 10 percent.

That's just not true, at least not in my experience. I don't think I ever got even 12mpg in my Navigator despite the fact the EPA rated it at 15mpg combined. By my calculations, that's over a 20% discrepancy.

I have also driven my Aunt's Honda Accord somewhat extensively. That thing is EPA-rated at 24/33 and I'll be damned if real world mpg is more than 20. Again, a discrepancy of over 20%.


FWIW, here's a little blurb from their advertising page:

If you think your advertising should be in a vehicle that is read by 150,000 business executives in metro Detroit....

So, how many of those 150k execs should we presume work for Toyota?

 

What I find interesting here is the reading between the lines:

"Sure it's possible to get the EPA ratings if you drive efficiently to get the most benefit from the hybrid technology".

That, IMHO, is a failing of owners, not the technology itself. If the EPA ratings are based on people who drive carefully to maximise the hybrid efficiency, then naturally the EPA numbers are going to be better than someone who drives with a lead-foot and just relies on it "being a hybrid" to compensate for their driving style.

The technology can help owners who want to get the best milage from the car. In itself, the technology can help, but it can't do everything for people who don't want to change their driving habits.

Dave

 

Exactly. I don't love this car because I'm achieving (after 6k miles and with warm weather) EPA estimates and above - I love this car because I drive a billion times more safely with it. I don't floor it at every light, I don't have a ruined day on my way to work, or a ruined evening on my way home - ever anymore. Previously, it was every night. Every Night! Driving the beltway in DC - and any of the extensions of these roads for just a few weeks is enough to put anyone in a mental institution. Now, when my coworkers come in bitching about the traffic and complaining, I just smile and think (Is that how bad I was before this car too?!).

If 'thousands' of people are 'driving this car like regular cars', then too bad they'll be on blood pressure medication while my yin and yang are in perfect balance.

Also, the article mentions that the Ford Focus gets PZEV ratings - is that true?! My partner had a Focus a few years ago, and I promise you the gas tank did not have a bladder.

-m.

 

i try not to get caught-up with the whole mileage controversy, :roll: but unfortunately the media has been focused on hybrid mileage with little or rare mention of the emissions topic because of the rising gas prices. sure the EPA ratings cannot always be met in the real world, but the prius does get great mileage compared to what's out there. IMHO getting 40mpg is great for a midsize car! we should ask the author what mileage he's getting with his present car.

i always remind myself: it's all about emissions! getting good mileage is a plus! :wink:

 

We've gotten to the point where people don't care how much filth they put into their own air, as long as it doesn't come out of their wallet. Maybe we need a pollution tax. Calculate how much filth a car will spew out over its estimated lifetime, and how much it's going to cost society in medical bills and clean-up expenses, and tack it on as a tax when it's sold. Why should I have to pay for someone else's decision to drive a dirty car?

But as long as the reporter is driving a conventional car he's not going to talk about the Prius' SULEV rating.

And Sun__Tzu, the Civic is an excellent car, with a proven track record. It's just not as technologically advanced as the Prius.

 

I just had a situation this morning when a coworker commented how she was behind me on the way in to work and how bad the traffic was. I did try to sympathize but wound up sounding clueless, saying that I was pleased that I was getting about 100 MPG during that segment.

Likewise, I was always grumpy and frustrated with traffic in my previous commuter vehicle. It really is amazing how much fun this car is to drive.

 

> they generally lump the Prius and Civic together as hybrids

Most people are under the impression that all hybrids are created equal.

We know quite clearly that Prius and Civic have virtually nothing in common. Their primary purposes are quite different. (Prius=Emissions, Civic=Efficiency). And the designs have absolutely nothing in common at all.

The differences in the upcoming hybrid SUVs probably won't be noticed at first. So that false impression could continue for that particular market. But those more interested in cars will probably wonder why the heck the hybrid version of Accord doesn't even attempt to compete with the efficiency of Prius. Hmm.

 

I think one of the problems with these reviews is that they're expecting a miracle car because of all the hype from media (and people like us -- no, I don't own one yet

Most of these articles follow a similar buildup:
-the EPA says this car gets good mileage
-we tested it for X days and Y miles, and we didn't come close
-BUT, we've heard that when you drive it "right", you will; but who wants to drive like that?

While some are good enough to consider that NO ONE achieves EPA standards, what they don't consider is that this type of fuel-saving driving style will save you gas no matter what kind of car you drive.

rflagg, I know exactly what you mean. I'm still driving a '98 Corolla, but I now drive it with a Prius-style, fuel saving attitude. Driving has become a whole lot less stressful after I've stopped speeding through traffic. I think its the attitude of squeezing every last mile out of each gallon, instead of squeezing every last mile out of each minute.

Just the other day, I was driving on local roads, and eased my way out of a green light. The red SUV behind me was tailgating me, obviously impatient at my 30mpg in a 30 zone. Knowing the traffic patterns near my house like the back of my hand, I knew the light 3 blocks down would be red, so I didn't floor it. The SUV swings around to my right, pulls along side long enough for the woman to flip me off and shout something, and speeds off down the right lane. About 40 seconds later, without having touched the accelerator or brake, I coast by her at the red light (my lane had less traffic). No stress : )

Yeah daniel, I know the Civic is a pretty good car, and that Honda is pretty innovative too. But I don't like the fact that its ICE is always running, and I've heard some minor complaints (like cabin noise). Meanwhile, doing my exhaustive research on Prius, I've read nothing but "Car of the Year" and "Top 10 for 2004." I just haven't seen that level or breadth of high praise for the Civic.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to finish up one of my thoughts. As someone who still drives a non-Prius, I have to say that I don't usually track or calculate my mileage. I don't think most people do or will, unless gas prices hit $4-5. The Prius, with that built-in screen and mileage calculator, make people accutely aware of its mileage.

These people in news reports who are upset that they're "getting screwed" probably never bothered calculating how much their old cars were underperforming EPA tests. And even if they're upset that they "paid for efficiency that they're not getting," they should remember that the Prius, even when driven inefficiently, is still more gas-thrifty than most other cars.

BTW, anyone else notice how most CAR magazines love the Prius, lavishing praise and awards on it? While most of the criticism has come from (aheem) "Crain's Detroit Business" and other "Business" magazines that, very likely, have a "relationship" with the Big Three.

 

You may have noticed in some of my postings on this site that I own a '03 Honda Civic Hybrid with the manual 5 speed transmission. It has a little of 40K miles on it and it consistantly gets 50+MPG. I haven't had any negative experiences with the car in the 2 years (this month) that I've owned it. Service to date has consisted of oil/filter changes, tire rotations, and recommended inspections at major intervals (i.e., 20K an d40K miles). Costs for maintenance have been entirely inline with what one would expect from any other Civic. The car is will built and the interior is comfortable.

Yes, it is targeted at the market that might not know anything about the technology of the hybrid as it looks and drives virtually like any other Civic. The only clue to the driver is the IMA display that displays real-time MPG and charge/discharge status. Using the IMA display effectively helps the driver to maximize MPG.

Would you care to share your experiences on why you call it overrated and junk?

 

My experiences with cars are similar to movies - that is, while I may think Shawshank Redemption is one of the greatest modern movies, you may think it was the biggest waste of 2+ hours of your life. Personally, I hated Spiderman, way too predictable and crappy CGI in my opinion - but nevertheless, the majority of people loved it more than their own offspring.

I think it's the same with cars. I promise you, you could find online a H2 lovers group or forum, while to many of us here they are the epitome of what is wrong with our country regarding vehicle purchases and ownership. Other people swear that Rabbits and K cars are the greatest invention, while still others drool over the ugly (IMO) Element or Scion (though I think the scion car coming out looks pretty nice).

Simply put, when someone says "such and such is a piece of junk", take it as a personal opinion - just like this writer has with the Prius. Unfortunately, being a writer he should have the decency to give it a fair chance and impartial review - but he is a writer in Detroit, so it's not expected. Again, if it weren't for the Honda Civic catching my eye and getting me interested in hybrids in the first place, I would've never cared about the Prius. From my test drive of the Civic Hybrid, I was as blown away by the car as I was the Prius when it came out. In the end, it's a matter of opinion.

-m.

 

I thought the book was better.

If you read to the end, his conclusion is that GM of all companies is the one that got it right. Uh huh. Wonder how much they pay him for that opinion.

 

"I think its the attitude of squeezing every last mile out of each gallon, instead of squeezing every last mile out of each minute."

Well put!!