Chevy stops Volt production (temporarily ...)

...the thing is, we are in an EV/plug-in revolution. All car makers are rolling out with new EV's, hybrids, and plug-ins. Exactly how and why this happened (considering the high cost of EV's), I do not know. But gov'ts worldwide have been encouraging and leveraging (co-funding) the R&D activity, is one explanation. Volt needs to be taken in that context. GM cannot not play the game, in fact they have a good start. Where this is all heading, I do not know. But the ethanol mandate is one parallel. Like ethanol I feel there may be some second thoughts if electrons are the right way to go for filling up, but ethanol is here to stay.

 

This may have nothing to do with the article, but it is an excellent point. It is one reason to be asking whomever tries to offer sales help how many hybrids they've been selling. If the dealership doesn't sell many, there is likely no one who really knows the car and no great incentive to give you a deal. Go elsewhere.

 

I fail to see what sales a $40K EREV is going to cannibalize from the rest of the lineup. Someone looking at a $15k to $25k Cruze is not going to make that big of a leap. Malibu and Impala are larger cars, so buyers are not going to be so likely to move down in size to a Volt. Sorry, but a Volt is either going to appeal to those who think they are going to save the planet by buying one, or those who are thrilled by the technology under the hood. This is why you see conquest sales by former Prius owners as the largest share of trades.

 

What if the Cruise is cannbalizing potential Volt sales?

DBCassidy

 

Like I said, this model of Volt wasn't targeted at middle-market... hence repeatedly pointing out the need for a second.

 

Just like last time production was halted, we here in the Chicago market are being pelted with a ton of Chevy Volt car commercials.

 

Of the GM line.. I would expect its more likely to cannibalize some Caddy or Buick sales (I know multiple CTS owners that traded up to the Volt).

So an analysis of costs might want to include that. But with the vast majority of buyers new to GM.. It does not seem to be an issue.

 

Wolfman, rather than looking at it as a $40K EREV I tend to look at it as a $0.29/mile vehicle when you take it on a lease and swap out gasoline expenses for charging expense.

What would a new Cruze and CTS $/mile be?

My 07 Prius is figuring at $0.26/mile, but it is a few years old now, and 100,000 miles.

 

Again, your double standard is showing. The first generation Prius was not a middle market car either. NONE of the EV's or plug in hybrids on the market today are proving to be hitting that mark - including the PIP. As such, you STILL cannot use that straw man argument regarding the Volt.

While GM would have loved to see the Volt selling at numbers along the lines of Lutz's lofty goals when the car was initially announced to be green lighted for production. It is still a success in that it is out selling what the market considers its competition.

While the 3rd gen Prius is a nice enough car - my folks own two of them - I STILL feel as if I've made a major step DOWN when I get out of my Volt, and sit in either one of their Priuses. They feel thin, cheap, and tinny, and are very buzzy in comparison. The PIP simply does not have an acceptable EV range for its price point, nor do I like the fact that EV range is so limited in its ability.

 

That first Prius very much resembled the high-volume mainstream vehicles of the time. It was a $20k sedan with a large interior and common features.

What is your definition of middle-market?

 

1997 $20,000 = 2010 $27,043

The Inflation Calculator


1997 110 YEN = 1 USD with currency support from Japanese Government
today without so much currency support 79 YEN = 1 USD

so in 1997 20,000 USD = $2.2M YEN, withou currency support it would have been 27,848 USD (1997 dollars), or $37,656 in 2010 dollars.

 

I don't know what your definition is, but that car and driver review that I posted in response to you, said it had the interior space of an echo, was much slower, and much more expensive, and they didn't get much more mpg out of it if driven the same way. That sounds like a car for initial adopters, that will alter their driving style to get highthe car and pay a high premium. Initial adopters could feel good about the technology and low emissions. Sales figures are reflective of this. I have no idea why in the world you would think it was a mid market car.

 

I see two posters have once again exposed your gross double standard. The original Prius sold at $20k when the average new car was in the low to mid teens. Here are the original MSRPs for the various versions of the Honda Civic - considered to be one of the best cars on the road back then:

2000 Honda Civic - AutoTrader.com

 

Rather than actually answer the question, shot the messanger. How is that even the slightest bit constructive?

Again.... HOW DO YOU DEFINE MIDDLE-MARKET ?

The rest of us have been measuring Volt against the other vehicles consumers consider: Cruze & Malibu.

Remember, the purpose of Volt tech is supposely to replace what those vehicles currently use... hence being targetted directly at those consumers.

 

I think the point is that being "middle market" does not really matter.
More telling is you have not given a definition. Its a fool's game to aruge with some that pushes for your definition and does not provide theirs.

Also it was being pointed out that you keep saying the Prius was aimed at middle-market, and when people point out to you why its not, they are reveling how they defined it, but rather than seeing that you want a definition. First middle market as a term is used to applied to companies, not products/people.

A middle market company is one with revenues (not profits) of 100m-1B/year sales​

​

So if we view the volt as a "company" it fits into that segment. But GM is larger than that so its they are not really middle-market, nor is chevy. So in that sense you are right, the Volt is not aimed at middle-market, its aim is more than 1B/year annual revenue, though it is currently selling in the middle market size of revenues.

However, I also don't think that is what you want so here is another, about the product rahter than company, and

I would define "middle-market" as product​

a product selling around the net average price in the market​

Which is close, but not quite true, about the Volt (and was also close, but not true about the the Prius). While that may have been their aim I only know what they claimed in public, neither car quite achieved the price point they wanted -- but with respect to their "Aim", they may very well have been aiming there.

From your posts the only definition of middle market I can estimate for your that middle market is what ever you feel it is, and choose to buy. You seem to measure it by your preference, as if that mattered. You've not given a functional definition.. so john instead of asking us, let me ask you

How do you define MIDDLE-Market. How do you decide if something is targeted there?

Why is important that a new product start aimed at the Middle Market, and what research shows that this is important?

The purpose of the Volt tech is to replace, over a 5-10 year span, what those vehicles currently use. You don't necessarily aim at the big market when you start, you often aim slightly above it to increase margins when the market is mostly early adopters that will pay more for new and exclusive.

Secondly, you seem to have a myopic short-term view. Even the mighty Prius plus all hybrids combined, with a decade of product sales, has not had much of an impact on replacing them. I'm not ready to call hybrids totally dead, because they can be cheaper, but also because you don't measure disruptive innovations in expensive technology on yearly time-frames. Since people keep cars, on average, nearly a decade, the impact/replacement schedule is part of the slow adoption process.

 

I couldn't have said this better myself.

With that, I did not miss the fact that john completely ignored my link that showed what the average sub compact car - the model most likely to be cross shopped with a Prius back then - sold for, showing just how much of a markup the mk1 Prius carried for its then state of the art drivetrain. The post-subsidy bump in price on the Volt is actually a lot closer numbers wise than I thought.

 

THE MEDIAN PRICE OF A VEHICLE WAS $20,000 BACK IN 2000.

THAT'S WHY TOYOTA CONFIGURED THE DESIGN TO MATCH.

IT SPEAKS VOLUMES SEEING THE EFFORT TO SPIN THAT.

 

You mean that's why the Japanese government held the YEN at 110 to keep the Prius and other exports price competative in the US market.

 

I think your big problem is you keep claiming mid market is a volt goal, but you have not told where this goal came from or what it means. Give us a definition that you have, and then tell how the gen I prius targeted it and the volt does not. That is your job not ours, since it is your idea. Toyota definitely has never said this.

 

I will agree, you are almost right about the price, the average price was 20355 (though not the median). The average was 18600 for domestic cars and 27,700 average for imports. (see this link for average prices)

No need to yell.. You keep trying to compare the Volt to below average cars like the Cruze then get hot and bothers when someone does something similar comparing the civic the Prius. Both comparisons are not to "average" but to cheap entry cars. Then again you have not defined what "middle market" means so its perfectly fine for someone to use the same relative comparison (cheap entry cars) that you did.

But again I see you have failed to define what you mean by middle market or to acknowledge what is the formal definition or another reasonable one.

Your attempts to SPIN the discussion, while YELLING about other's replies doing exactly what you seem to do, speaks volumes. When you cannot win your argument on facts, you get emotional and avoid the issues you yourself was demanding other address.