C-Max hybrid to get 47mpg both city/hwy

Ford didn't write the article, why are you pinning it on them?

 

Its numbers are closer to the liftback on paper, but most people don't buy cars by the numbers alone. When people go to the dealer they will see a wagon/crossover hybrid thing like the v. Meanwhile the liftback is a hatchback/sedan thing. Yes, the C-max is smaller than the v, but the mind associates like shapes. The EPA will likely reflect this when it classifies the C-max as a station wagon, like the v.

With the smaller battery, Toyota needed to limit its use. It was a fair trade off for lower costs, and the Prius fuel economy balances out the electric limits. Ford went with a larger battery which gives them more Kwh to play with.

Standardized testing of the local is also a factor. 62mph let the Prius PHV run the EPA test cycle in EV. European testing is less severe and the P-PHV has a lower EV speed limit there.

Because they are the competitor.​

 

It all depends on which numbers.
If you use numbers like height, width, drivers height to road, angle of back window, number of splits on back window, passenger room. The c-max meets or exceeds the prius v in the direction of the v.

Drag is closer to the v. Weight is also higher, in the direction of the v. I would not consider either of these things good. Power to weight, is better than both, I guess in the direction of the liftback. Powered liftgate opening by waving your foot, doesn't make sense in a liftback, but isn't on the prius v either.

When it comes to length the c-max is shorter than both.

Cargo space and mpg are in between. These are biased toward the liftback side, but the shape of the space looks more like the prius v.

Give all the numbers to an automotive engineer or car reviewer, and the prius v is closer to the c-max. Toyota and ford even call them both CUVs, event though the prius v is really a station wagon version, and I don't even know what the c-max should be called.

It just makes sense that more people will cross shop the c-max hybrid with the prius v, no matter how some Europeans view them. The prius v is also cross shopped with the prius liftback and phv, and I'm sure the c-max hybrid and energi will also.

 

Again, what you are writing does not make any sense to anyone but people writing PR's for Ford.

Prius and C-Max are roughly the same size cars with same space. Differences are probably not going to be usable in real life because they come because of the height of the car. If anything, due to the seating position and longer passanger cabin, people might find Prius Liftback more comfortable than C-Max.

When people, reviewers, engineers compare Prius and Prius v, they say that only reason to buy Prius v is its bigger trunk.

So its trunk is its defining feature.

And Prius and C-Max have very similar trunks vs Prius v having at least 40% bigger trunk than C-Max, and probably even more usable, because, again, it is longer car so trunk space is longer...

So why in the world would anyone compare C-Max and Prius v BUT NOT Prius Liftback? Because that way you get better mpg and price for Ford PR.

It would be like Toyota coming with Tacoma and claiming it gets better MPG than F-150 and it is cheaper too... literally.

As I said, C-Max is a good product so far (on paper), I hope its 350/600lbs extra weight drag on the MPG too much but it has good points compared to Prius liftback such as performance.

 

You seem to be trolling with this spwolf. Read my post and read the numbers, and tell me where it is wrong. You can also call car and driver, motor trend, and the wsj how they are all writing PR for ford. By the way toyota seem's to be writing PR for ford also. You might want to get mad at toyota, with how they are markeing the prius v.

Ford C-Max Hybrid: Can it Beat the Prius? - Driver's Seat - WSJ

I've never heard the lift back called a crossover. Have you? Toyota has called the prius v a cross over. hmm. Maybe I am being biased by toyota's PR.

You take half truths then distort and accuse. I am tired of it. I really don't have a dog in this hunt. I said people should look at the passenger room and cargo space themselves. You seem to be saying, NO. Its fords pr, the c-max can't be better than prius v to anyone. Seems a little like you are trying to prove a point, no one can prove. Look at all the numbers not just the car's length. What about power to weight?

Oh by the way the prius v and c-max don't have trunks. Those are the things that seal outside the passenger area. They do have cargo areas you can compare. You should do it, in real life, with real objects.

 

IIRC, he works for Toyota Europe, which could explain some of his views. Ford may have also kicked his puppy, but that's pure speculation on my part.

 

Edmunds lists the C-Max Energi at a very heavy 3859 pounds and the Hybrid at a bloated 3600+ lbs. Neither of these are going to be fast and the handling won't be that great. The Prius PHV is a comparative light weight at 3145.

 

Dick, you need to remember its not just about weight. The hybrid has 188 hp, and energi 194 hp. The c-max uses a multilink suspension and 17" tires. This should give it better handling and acceleration than the prii, but its not going to be a sports sedan.

 

For both bikes & rollerblades, smaller is the better. What aspect are you referring to for cars?

Larger tires provide a nicer sustained cruise. They can be more efficient too.

 

I never was a roller blader. For bikes there are many trade offs, depending on terrain. Riding a 29er is quite different than my time trial bike

There is a right size for handling. I upgraded my prius wheels and tires to 205/50R17s and find them better handling than stock. The keys here are less of a side wall so less sidewall flex, along with a wider tire. There are trade offs, and you can go too big.

The trade off for better handling is more rolling resistance, which worse fuel economy. The lower sidewall flex can also lead to a rougher ride if the suspension is not tuned for it. My prius suspension is fine with the 50 profile sidewall. Get those rims to 19s though and handling gets worse. The c-max likely needs wider tires for the same handling because of higher weight. Just like bikes tread and material are important, and in these hybrids we tend to go for low rolling resistance which is more difficult as a handling design perameter. Materials seem to improve every year, so new tires on a gen II prius might improve both fuel economy and handling.

I guess if you don't have a feel for these things, the best you can do is drive different tires back to back. I agree with your point that just saying bigger is not necessarily better.

 

There certainly are trade offs. A larger tire without an increase in weight, is obviously more expensive, but you could sustain a high-speed cruise more efficiently. In stop & slow traffic, it's an hit in the other direction.

Heck, it's like battery-capacity. Too much unused will cost you... so could always exceeding it. But then again, an efficient engine to compliment would balance out.

It's going to be quite confusing to consumers trying to make purchase decisions with so many factors at play.

 

To me it doesn't matter which Prius they're comparing it too. If the numbers hold up in RL conditions, it gets a good record of trouble free ownership, and perhaps a better overall quality, then it'll provide the much needed competition Prius has needed for ten years!

 

Perhaps I'm missing something ... like actual cars in local dealers or even listed on the EPA web site: Fuel Economy

We often find differences, usually minor, between what car reviewers see in a pre-production vehicles and what we, various Prius owners, see when they show up on the lots. Given the flaws found in the Consumer Reports "score" for the Prius c, I would gently suggest caution.

Last Tuesday, I went to the Ford dealer to get some 'seat time' in a Ford Fusion Hybrid. I had no interest in a test drive as much as making sure I understood the body, form, fit, and function. It is a nice car and good competition for the Camry hybrid but neither appeals to me. I suspect the Ford C-MAX will be in the same 'curious' but not enough to run down to the dealer . . . especially if I have to drive to one of the CARB states for any seat time. I would also observe that Prius owners appear to be the 'prize' of other car manufacturers.

Between 2006 and 2010, VW's TDI diesel marketing and some USA dealers spent substantial amounts trying to eat into Prius ownership (aka., the "GreenHuman" stunt.) GM's Volt team seems to be following the same pattern and some have hired hypermilers to tout their vehicles. I suspect it is because they can't (or are too lazy) to figure out how to appeal to non-hybrid customers. The true growth of TDI diesels came when they changed their focus to the larger customer base.

At best, Prius owners are between 2.5-3.0% of the car buying market. Sure we're older, wealthier, smarter (and our kids are all above average and our women handsome) Lake Woebegone residents. But until the advocates of non-Prius cars wake up and learn how to sell to larger markets, we're going to see a lot of snipping here. The foolish who think their job is to get Prius owners out of our rides . . . and zero growth of fuel efficient vehicles.

Bob Wilson

 

I would be better off getting my '08 made into a PHEV by Plugin Supply for a lot cheaper. I would spend less money getting a used Highlander Hybrid and again having Plugin Supply make it a PHEV for less than $30k.

 

Why in the world would you be better off in a used converted HiHy? You will get worse CS milage, and you would be in a used not a new car if you go the highlander route. You would also lose the waranty. I can understand you may want a mid size SUV instead of a crossover, but that is just silly.

If you want to juice your old prius, many people do that. There is plenty of information out there about the trade offs.

 

According to Plugin Supply my warranty would not be affected. Have you looked at their website? PIS claims over 50 mph EV with 50 mile range. I need a SUV for the amount of passengers in my family. I would be spending way less also.

 

No, but I know that Toyota threatened to void my warranty for suspension and steering just because I put on 17" rims. Toyota can void your warranty, for the hybrid parts - battery, motors, inverters, psd if it hacks the software, etc. Its likely that your Toyota dealer will also try to blame the conversion for any engine problems that come up, although that is not strictly legal. That's why many people wait until cars are out of waranty coverage when doing conversions. Conversion companies often will warant some of the coverage that the OEM is voiding.

If you want room for more than 5, then the c-max and all the other available production phevs won't fit your needs. In that case, we are outside this thread. I don't know much about the hihy conversions, but if you want a toyota phev conversion that seats 6 or 7, there aren't many options. That may be your best one, but I am certainly not qualified to give you advice there.

 

Don't forget the lost space do to the conversion. I don't think HiHy was available with the third row to begin with, but it likely needs to go for a conversion.

 

I'm intrigued with the C-Max. If Ford is after the buyer that wants small SUV utility, an efficient package, and plenty of technology...that's me.

 

I've been trying to get as much information as possible about the C-Max, as I'd like to see someone else develop real competition in this market. I love my Prius, and I'd buy another if my current one would wear out, but I will look at all the options before making a purchase.

One of the things I've looked at is the size of the cars and the room available inside and out. While the Prius v is available at nearly every Toyota dealer, the C-Max hasn't yet arrived. My local Ford dealer told me this past Saturday that they were going to get one C-Max -- and it already was pre-sold. The dealer didn't know anything about the car. Frankly, no one at the dealership had any interest in the car.

Let me know how the C-Max will offer SUV utility, efficiency and technology in any better fashion than the Prius v. The Prius v has more space and flexibility. We'll see about fuel economy when they actually hit the road. Technology? What does the C-Max offer that the Prius v doesn't?

Looking at the numbers, it appears to me the Prius v has more seating room, more flexibility with the seating arrangements and cargo space. If the C-Max seats are anything like the Focus seats (the C-Max is built on the same platform), they are less comfortable (in the second row) than the Prius v seats. Of course, it is really difficult to actually compare the C-Max to the Prius v without having a chance to see and touch both cars. I'll wait to make a decision once I've seen and touched the C-Max.

I'm liking the concept, too. I'd just like to see the cars arrive and perform.