First Oil Change...Wait 10K Miles?

Just purchased my "C" this week, and asked the dealer about an early oil change. FWIW, he claims the factory does a "pre-run" on the engine before installation then replaces the oil so truly no change is needed until the 10k service...

 

Hmmm interesting. This may be why my orignal oil lap tests have been very good with low wear metal for braking in oil. I absolutely would not change until 10k on this car.

 

When I was at the dealership we used to tell people that all the time and there's zero basis for it. The manufacturer does the same break-in change that any engine builder would do - start is up with some mineral oil or equivalent in it, rev it up for awhile, drain and refill with normal oil. That's not a full break it, it just clears out the assembly lube.

 

Could be, but I doubt it: likely just dealership smoke.

 

If you're in Bellingham, Washington State, I assume your oil change interval is 10000 miles or 12 months. Well, if you live a few kilometers north and purchase in Vancouver, BC, Canada, this is your normal oil change interval (8000 km roughly equiv. to 5000 miles):



(The above is cut-and-paste from Toyota Canada website)

 

^Exactly. 10k intervals is a marketing gimmick, not what's best for the car.

 

The 8000km oil change could easily be a marketing gimmick in Canada to sell more oil and services.

 

Tiny oil filters have had no technology advancements that allow them to hold more particles, nor has engine technology changed to allow for less oil contamination. What has changed is the laziness level of Americans who now expect cars to be maintenance free. They also don't want to pay for maintenance, so Toyota has offered to cover it and ever since they have, maintenance intervals have suddenly widened hugely. We at the dealer all saw this coming because we knew Toyota sure as hell wasn't going to pay for synthetic changes every 5k miles.

 

I work for a big oil company and suggest you don't bother listening to Toyota! They know NOTHING about the cars they design and build. What you really want to do is change your oil every 1500 miles just like the good ol' days of the 1950's. That way you'll feel much happier AND keep me in a job.


Come on guys, get a grip. Toyota say every 10,000 miles and they say that for a reason. If they felt it needed changing at 1,000 miles THEY'D SAY SO

They pay for warranty claims, they have their reputation to worry about. So if they say every 10,000 miles, then just follow their advice. Can it be any simpler?

 

Engine technology has changed enormously both from the materials used and assembly methods and do you know we no longer use carburetors for fuel metering washing the oil off cylinder walls diluting the oil and leaving large black carbon deposits that clog the oil filter.

We now use computer controlled electronic injection systems in lean burn engine with electronic ignition control.

I know they have changed but you do not believe it.

 

I think you missed the point. What has changed since the synthetic cars hit the road two whole years ago with a 5k interval that has allowed DOUBLE the oil and filter life?

 

Nothing. It was never needed at 5k miles if using synthetic oil The oil would have been just as good if the manufacturers had given a 10k miles interval. Many have done oil analysis on here and found it to be in almost perfect condition after 10k miles.

This subject has been discussed at length many times before, so I will risk repeating the same, but the same cars and manufacturers are offering double oil change intervals in Europe for over a DECADE, with some offering 15k miles intervals too. This is with engine warranties running upto 100k miles and/or 5 or 8 years in length. So what gives? How come manufacturers like VW or BMW or Honda are more than happy to increase oil change intervals to 12.5k, 15k, or even 18k miles in Europe AND offer longer warranties, let still continue with 5k mile changes in America? And before somebody comes out with outdated stereotypes; we still have start stop traffic, we still run cars at 30k or 40k miles per year, we still have hot and cold climates (Greece & Finland).

America has been used to a 3k or 5k oil change interval using mineral oil and is loath to change this despite the release of much improved synthetic oils. Whether this is due to resistance from dealers who will lose half their income from oil changes is debatable. But it doesn't take just a cynic to work it out

 

It's not just about the oil. It's the filter and how much of a pressure drop and decreased filtration ability is being lost over time. Again, there have been no advancements is filter technology to allow for double or triple the previous intervals.

 

OK, so what gives then? Perhaps the filters ARE upto the job considering the number of positive oil analysis results that have been posted previously? Or maybe the results are good enough for a car to last well past 100k miles, though might not be suitable in an aerospace environment?


Just had a quick google since posting the above. It's not just Toyota forums where this question is asked. BMW, Honda, Mercedes, VW etc all ask similar questions. If a manufacturer in Europe is happy to offe upto 3x longer intervals AND still offer a longer warranty, then why not in America?

 

Cars have have been using synthetic oil in Europe for around 12years and you are making the assumption that when you do an oil change "at whatever mileage" the filter is at the end of it's life "blocked" this is far from the truth. It is however a convenient and considering the cost sensible time to replace the filter.

You are also making the assumption that because filters have not become larger that there filtration capacity must be the same, again not true. The filtration capacity depends on the surface area of of the filtering media within the container.

The amount of wear material released into the oil and captured by the filter is very small if it were not your engine would not last past 50,000miles. Small ford engines 1000cc to 1500cc in 1960's/70, were lucky to get past 25,000 miles before requiring a rebore and crank regrind now this size engine from Ford will outlast the rest of the car in spite of the fact that the engines are subject to more stress (motorway use etc), the oil filters are the same size or smaller than the 1960's, the oil change interval has gone from 3000miles to 12,000miles, and the engines easily reach 200,000 miles plus.

 

Read.
Second Opinion: Oil Sludge: an expensive but preventable disaster

 

It's not about wear material. *facepalm

EVERY contaminant eventually makes its way into the oil. From blow by, to gasoline, to the dirt and pollen that makes it through the air filter. That stuff builds up over time. 100k engine warranties mean nothing because even the most poorly carried for sludge filled motors will make it to 100k before exploding. Last I checked, the engine warranty on the C is 36k, which is a joke of a mileage. You could do that on the original oil, it it doesn't mean it'd be a good idea.

 

It's not about wear material. *facepalm

EVERY contaminant eventually makes its way into the oil. From blow by, to gasoline, to the dirt and pollen that makes it through the air filter. That stuff builds up over time. 100k engine warranties mean nothing because even the most poorly carried for sludge filled motors will make it to 100k before exploding. Last I checked, the engine warranty on the C is 36k, which is a joke of a mileage. You could do that on the original oil, it it doesn't mean it'd be a good idea.