No doubt this will be a popular story in hybrid-skeptic circles. First the initial reports: Source: 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Gets 4-Star NHTSA Safety Rating The NHTSA score is an 'executive summary' and I've seen in the past the devil is in the details. But you don't know to look until the initial reports come out. But as an additional data point, 120 lbs is half the weight of a typical Southern male. It begs the question of what happens to these safety ratings in a fully loaded car. Bob Wilson
thanks bob, i was thinking the same thing. i wonder if weight density or location would have any effect as well.
I am curious on what Toyota meant by the extra weight of the pack affected the "methodology". I would think there was no change to the methodology, just the results?
Well, despite the body and material similarities, the PHEV is a different car than the 2012 without the added batteries and materials. The test conditions are not exactly the same thing as putting a 12o pound weight in a regular 2012 Prius. So that's one area the methodology might be called into question.
The conditions change, sure. But the methods and procedures don't, do they? I am guessing it was a poor choice of words on behalf of the Toyota spokesman. However, if the methods and procedures of the test itself really changed, I would definitely want to know why as that doesn't seem valid.
Probably just me, but I never consider things like crash ratings when buying a new car. I know what I want and buy it. I have never even test drove any one of the 7 new cars I have purchased.
Another possibility is that the added body rigidity from adding the larger battery pack behind the rear seats moved the weakest points in the body structure to new and more safety sensitive areas and that resulted in the lower scores.
I went to Home | Safercar -- National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and looked at the 2012 Prius and the 2012 Prius Plug-In. Both cars scored the same ratings in the Front Crash (4 star), Side Crash (5 star), and Rollover test (4 star). Yet, the 2012 Prius gets a overal 5-star rating and the Plug-in the 4-star rating. Looking into the details, I see what may be the difference. The Plug-In's risk of rollover is 12.4% while the regular Prius' risk of rollover is 12.1%. The detail for Front and Side crash are the same. From what I recall, one PiP owner here measured the height of the PiP versus a regular Prius and the PiP was higher (when measured from the top of the wheel well to the ground). That, plus the added weight of 120lbs in the rear half of the vehicle most likely make it more susceptible to roll over (well, 12.4% versus 12.1%). If you look at the rollover test illustration, you'll see what I mean. Plug-In test ratings and videos: 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In 5 HB FWD | Safercar -- NHTSA Prius Hatchback test ratings and videos: 2012 Toyota Prius 5 HB FWD | Safercar -- NHTSA Something else I found was that the NHTSA crash ratings test methodology was changed in late 2010. You can read more about it here, but the main thing I got out of it was that now cars are rated based on other cars in their class. Its not just a simple "how did it do" but now "how did it do compared to other cars in the class". Crash Test 101 - Understanding tests and ratings EDIT: Here's the thread where johs2008 measured a PiP and a 2011 hatchback. Anyone lowered yet? | PriusChat. It was 3/4" higher in the front and 1" higher in the rear.
i have never looked either. i do know people who drive volvo's for safety reasons. other than that, i've never heard any talk about crash ratings in car purchases, but the mfg.'s always tout it when they get a good rating.
You beat me to it: 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In 5 HB FWD | Safercar -- NHTSA Are the tires different? I notice the following: Frontal - driver 5, passenger 4 Side crash - driver 5, passenger 5 rollover - 12.4% ... I'm curious about the range of the 5 star cars Bob Wilson
There was a thread that was started shortly after the first PiPs started getting delivered and it seemed that tires brands/models were all over the board. Some got Yokohamas (like me), some got Goodyear, some Bridgestone. I would think its the same case for the regular Prius? However, the size is the same.
I'm just trying to figure out how the body might be a little higher. Probably time to look for the specs. I find it hard to believe they changed the body enough that we could measure it ... not impossible ... just it would mean different press dies. Perhaps stiffer springs? Bob Wilson
Yeah, in that thread I linked to, it looks like only the rear springs are a different part number, which most likely means the rear springs are stiffer. But as I mentioned in that other thread, when I got my car, I kept thinking it looked really high, higher than the other Prius parked at work. Although I never measured the ride height myself, it definitely coincides with my own observations. If Toyota really wants to "fix" this.. they should install a rear sway bar on the 2013 PiP.
If we can confirm it was the roll-over metric that cause the 4 versus the 5. We really need to survey and/or send a letter to the NHTSA to understand what caused the lower score. They may have finer fractions that do not show up in the integer 1-5 scale used for the driver and passenger. I'll check my 2010 manual tonight but I thought there was some sort of bar at the back to help keep the rear axle beam on the road. I could be wrong but need to peek. Bob Wilson
The front shocks are also different between 2012 Prius and 2012 PiP. I only checked the RH front, but I would guess the rears are also different. Prius RH front 48510-80574 PiP RH front 48510-80578
Bob, Here's the NHTSA final report on the 2012 PiP crash test: NHTSA VSR | Search Media Page Its 163 pages. But maybe you can make some sense of it? Here's the 2012 Prius Liftback final report: NHTSA VSR | Search Media Page This is only the front impact test report. No rollover report that I can find. It almost looks like the PiP does better in the front impact collision versus the standard Liftback. Although both get 4-stars so its probably negligible.
The rear suspension is different in a pip to accommodate the extra weight of the battery. How as in part numbers or specifics I never bothered to ask when told it was different.
Is this anything like the 6 mile EV rating for the PiP due to a hard acceleration at 6 miles in the EPA test, which causes the PiP ICE to come on?
We should also be careful about drawing any conclusions from the NHTSA tests since they are conducted into a flat barrier at lower speeds than the Offset crash tests used by Euro NCAP and the IIHS. These test are much more severe regarding actual crash energy but are much closer to the real world as far as how cars behave in common crashes. Although GM and other domestic manufactures complained about the lower scores awarded to domestic cars tested in the early years of the IIHS tests, the testing really was designed to properly asses the risk of property damage and the risk of injury and death and is "real world" testing in that that the test scores are used to help them decide how much the insurance rates will be affected by the cars ability to protect is occupants in the event of a crash. This is a video of the Euro NCAP crash test of a Gen 3 !
In terms of insurance rates only, occupant deaths are a relatively small factor, especially compared to vehicle damage and comprehensive coverage in general. That said, the IIHS frontal and side impact tests are complimentary to the NHTSA testing, especially the updated protocols starting in 2011. Both are very reflective of typical real-world crashes and being able to do well in both sets is much more of a challenge in design than optimizing for one or the other. We have a nice benefit in the USA in that we have a wider variety of testing than many other locales. As for the PIP, it sounds like it just missed the threshold for an overall 5-star NHTSA rating, or the regular Prius just barely exceeded it. Either way, it's possible that there is not any significant safety difference between the two. Neither one earns any 3-star or marginal ratings in any individual tests, so even a safety conscious buyer would likely not have any issues purchasing them. And yes, we are out there and do look at crash test results;-) I admit, crash test results were not a high priority for me personally until I had children, but traffic crashes remain a leading cause of death for all age groups up to 24-35 years old.
