Wow smug self-righteousness like that is what makes people least dislike some prius owners. You appear to be implying I am narrow mindedly knocking the prius, which is simply not true, and where in my posts have I suggested anyone who disagrees is nuts? You attack me for using the term "Pious" with a non-quoting 'quote" you attribute. But that is not what I said. And since you still don't get it I must presume that means you did not actually read the posts here since two of the posts before mine in this thread (Poll: Why are we hated? | PriusChat and Poll: Why are we hated? | Page 2 | PriusChat) refer to/cite the Southpark episode. The second post above linking to the southpark episode was by exactly the person to whom I was responding when I used the "Pious" term.. so its natural to expect they understand that smugness reference and hence I felt it reasonable to explain their behavior in those terms. You can disagree with it, but I do not need to "correct" my post.. I used the term as I believe it was intended.. a humorous term suggisting prius driver smugness. Maybe thou doth protest to much, because it hits too close to home. Then you want to pile on your "beating" so you quote me out of context and add some spin with irrelevant data supporting your misinterpretation of my position I had posted To which you reply I'll admit I did not provide data, but then again it was a side comment, not the main point of my post. But since you asked. here is my "data". I was considering a prius to replace my aging 1995 honda. My first rental of a prius I only average 39mpg.. and did not really like the car.. I was flooring it all the time to get the type of acceleration/performance I wanted and was used to, and on the highway I drove at 75+, and was not really leveraging regen. I asked a friend with a prius and he pointed me here to PC and also explained a bit about what was going on in the dash. I learned many things and on my next prius rental (as I was still considering Prius+kit or Prius PHV) we were more informed and learned to use the car's feedback and averaged 48MPG. I learned first hand that learning matters. My comment was that there is alot of good feedback in a prius that can help anyone get excellent (for an ICE) milage. A TDi can get good with just normal highway driving, but overall its not as good a s Prius. My data was my own personal experience, though its also consistent with and explains various reviews where car mags and online reviews that pan the Prius for not getting near 50.. when its really the driver, e.g. go read Comparison Test: 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid vs. 2011 Toyota Prius Five . Back in the early prius days some mags did not get good milage on the initial tests, but did in their long term.. and there are multiple threads on PCchat about how to learn to do better. My conclusion on "learning to get excellence" is not inconsistent with your data.. your data shows average performance of people that own the car reporting MPG, which probably means they learned how to be more efficient. Owning a prius can change your driving as it helps to make you more efficient, which will then be reflected in real-world long-term data. Then you return to a your view of Advocacy/Skecitism using it as an indirect assault on me Go back and read my first two posts (#1 #2) .. my first posts were not advocacy.. they were directly addressing misinformation by someone putting down the Volt as well as commenting on how that behavior might lead to "hate" (or at least distaste). That is very consistent with the thread, so get of your high horse. I only added more information about the volt when people like you started arguing and spewing misinformation that I corrected. If any hijacking was done, you hijacked the thread to attack me and the volt.. not the other way around. While the question you presented is pointless, the optimum is a function of the owner and their needs/driving habits, so it cannot be a poll or single answer. The space of possibilities is too large for a normal trade study as there are too many important dimensions with unknown values. But I think I can see what you are asking about. I could put together a generalized spreadsheet people could use with their own information. If I do, I'll post it under the Volt thread so people don't think I'm advocating in the wrong place. :focus: So back to the tread. Why am I'm even bothering with this reply? Will anyone have read it this far? Probably not. So why bother? As I tried to point out -- the smugness of some, but definately not all, prius owners is one of the reasons for resentment -- significant enough that it is core of the southpark episode on hybrids. It is also the most easily addressed as its in your control. I'm only spending time responding because your behaivor in the thread is a first class, first hand example of smugness. Maybe before you start condemning me or others, you should consider what was actually posted, you should consider more generally what I do post on PC in a broader context. Maybe it would interest you to know that I do value data and that I help with the plug-in prius MPG spreadsheet.. because I actually am interested in this stuff and want to help. So how do you reduce Prius hate? Here's a start: consider how what that you say (and do) will be interpreted by others, and listen to what other actually say, not what you expect.
drinnovation, obviously u don't have a clue of what the prius is capable of despite u claiming u have driven a rental. I can drive my prius normal all day long without any knowledge of technique & average 45+ mpg easily. There is no way a TDI is going to beat a prius driving "normal". And another thing, u come to a prius forum stereotyping & bashing those that don't agree with u & being overly sensitive to each response. U would have been mobbed & lynched by now in other forums which tells u the patience & intelligence overall of our members in this forum. If anything, u are mainly doing the name calling & being snide/"smug" in your response. So look in the mirror & take a good look as u need to get off your highhorse!
Thanks! A table like this in the Volt or plug-in forum can bring value and lead to real insights. Bob Wilson
Here's some Prius hate for you. We stopped at Albertsons to get my wife her over priced Yuppie coffee (Starbucks). I decided to stay in the car and listened to the radio. Since there was only a few cars in the parking lot I parked in between two spaces but kept the car running so I could move it in case someone wanted to park behind me. I kid you not, I guy and his wife rear ended me "hard", their license plate screws dented our rear bumper. Surprised them as i jumped out of our Prius, OOOHHH BOY it got bad then because they didn't think any body was in our car (Prius) The sheriffs were called to brake us up because once I jumped out to confront them it got violent, the guy started threatening me and then my wife when she come out of the store. The Depute suggested I take some pictures. I took the pictures and the incident report to the other couples insurance agent that Monday. Their insurance was hooked up with Toyota body shop. We dropped off the car at the body shop, his insurance company provided us with a rental and three days later we picked up out Prius with a new bumper skin. The whole repair total in the $500's. In all honesty we probably wouldn't have cared about it at all if he would have just apologized instead of acting like a jerk and purposely hitting our new Prius with an at least twenty year old VW Jetta that had old damage on all sides. ''''FIRST HAND PRIUS HATE""
In the Boston area, that's called 'Park by Feel'. Or it can be visual too. Once they see you car bounce from the impact, they will stop and backup a few inches. It doesn't really make any difference what brand of car you're driving. But if it looks new or expensive, the more likely it will be trashed. The guys I really dislike, are the jerks that park their old junkbox beside your new car, and fling their door into yours, causing major dents and paint damage.. But, that's the price we pay for living here..
I like to tell my FEH friend that I'm getting +60 mpg on my Prius every time - just to rile her up! When gas was under $3 per gallon - She said I was crazy - trying to learn hypermiling. When gas increased to $4 per gallon - and I started making real progress with hypermiling - my friend looked at me and said how are you doing this? After studying how the price of gasoline is set - I am no longer upset with the oil and gasoline industry per se - I know that it is not how oil is extracted or refined or taxed that is really driving up the cost of gasoline - it is how oil and gasoline prices are financed (and manipulated via speculation of future contracts) that is driving up the price of gasoline and diesel. However, nobody (not democrat or republican or independent or tea party or green party ) seems focus on reforming how oil future contracts are financed/regulated. The world is not about to change drastically - accepting this reality is part of the reason I have a Prius. By being more energy efficient than everyone else - I'll be the least and last to be affected by the ups and downs of the energy sector's financial speculation and abuses - while those who depend on gas guzzlers will be the first and the most affected. I suppose that some of those gas guzzler drivers will look at me and think "#$%@!! I bet he's a smug Prius owner who does not have to worry about Wall Street putting their hands in my wallet every time I gas up!" And yeah they will right about that. I am expecting that the gas guzzler using majority will solve the problem of high gas prices (no need for me to get involved in this ugly fight).
You think this jerk wouldn't have hit you if you were in a nice new BMW, Lexus, Mercedes or even a new Honda? It's not Prius hate- it's just plain lowlife disrespect/disregard for others property. They're angry because you can afford a new car and they're stuck with a 20yo POS.... so they're teaching you a lesson! FWIW- It's nice to have a new car, but the most low maintenance, relaxing car I ever owned was an old VW Bug beater that I had bought to hold me over when my very nice Jeep was being restored at my friends body shop. The car cost me $300 and was faded yellow with plenty of dings and rusted running boards. I used to tell passengers to lift their feet when we drove through puddles if they wanted to keep their shoes dry! With this car- I was the one squeezing into tight spaces, I was the one parking in the front rows right next to the store, I was also the one parking right next to the 1972 Ford Country Squire station wagon with 12 kids inside it just waiting to blast the doors open in to the car next to them! It was a blast to drive- cause it was basically bulletproof and any additional dents, scratches, and dings from parking lot buffoons didn't bother me in the least. In fact- the owner even gave me a spare engine (which I never needed) for the car. When I got my Jeep back from the bodyshop- It was bye bye Bug and back to parking in the boonies and stressing over parking lot hijinks at every store. It's a shame where there's a segment of society that hates you just because you have something nice or new...
I was reading a Prius v review in Autoweek and found a practical example of "Prius hate" including the reader comments: 42 MPG (EPA combined) vs "34-mpg science project" - Bob Gritzinger $26,550-$30,140 (EPA MSRP) vs "$36,000" - Bob Gritzinger Bob Gritzinger recommended: Mazda 5, $19,625-24,025 (EPA MSRP), 24 MPG (EPA) David Arnouts recommended: Mazda 5, "(for $11,000 less) with slightly worse gas mileage (28 mpg vs 34 mpg)" Roger Hart recommended: Sportswagen diesel, "$6,000 you'd save" 33 MPG (EPA combined) Now these are factual errors which are pretty bad given the EPA web site is so readily available. But they also had their share of snark: "[price rjw] that subsidized a huge real-world pilot program." - Gritzinger "[Prius owners rjw] wear the whole 'I Am Green' on their sleeve." - Hart The snark gives a clue to their resentment, their angst about the Prius and those who buy them. But this is also echoed by the comments to this article from their readers: "[Prius owners rjw] just do it for the "I'm better than you" idealogical "bonus"" "you become a Prius ahole driver. Even me, I discovered, when I drove my mother's Prius. She's old and senile," "a snobbish Prius driver who thinks they are saving the world." "Prius people have blinders on to better options. . . . they're emotionally (or dare I say spiritually) invested in the brand. . . . their belief system." Source: 2012 Toyota Prius V: Review notes - Autoweek I don't fault them since they are up front that acceleration, comfort and noise are their touch-stones and efficiency is not something they really care about. They don't recognize efficiency as having any importance so looking for a fair review, well one might as well 'teach a pig to sing.' The angst of Prius haters is palpable and sad to say, leads some to just 'make sh*t up' when the facts and data don't match their expectations. But this has always been the way of too much of the world. Bob Wilson
Over lunch, I was thinking about this: We're often accused of being "superior self-image," "smug," "green," and "too slow." Then I realized it isn't that we are superior to everyone else as much as the contrast with Prius skeptics. They are too lazy to get the facts and data, thus ignorant of the car's actual operational characteristics, and prejudicial against Prius and Prius owners . . . which in contrast makes us appear to be superior and smug. So I'm starting to craft a reply to a bunch of the Prius skeptics and Autoweek editors to share the facts and data. Written with a deft hand, this should be a lot of fun in the Prius skeptic comment logs. It won't stop their snark but it will 'do unto others as they've been doing to you.' <grins> Bob Wilson
Hate has become such an overused word that it no longer means anything more than "someone hurt my feelings".
Semantics is a funny subject. So given a thesaurus listing: abhorrence abomination anathema animosity - yes animus - yes antagonism antipathy aversion blackbeast bother bugbear bêtenoire detestation - yes disgust - yes egotistical - yes enmity - yes execration frost galling - yes grievance gripe - yes hatred - already taken horror hostility - yes illwill irritant - yes loathing - yes malevolence malignity - yes mislike nastylook nolovelost nuisance objection odium offsensive pain provoking - yes rancor - yes rankling - yes repugnance repulsion - yes resentment - yes revenge revulsion - yes scorn - yes spite - yes trouble upset 14 year old girl - ? unnatural - yes venom - yes Other - yes We have list of terms small enough to put into a poll . . . "Prius and Prius owners are treated with?" Then ask for votes with specific examples. Bob Wilson
I think it's less hate than suppressed guilt. People have to rationalize paying more at the pump and/or putting out more emissions, so they pick on the obvious target.
Sad, but true in regards to the above. I can easily get 45+ mpg all day long in my Prius. The TDI is good, but at this time the mpg can not match the Prius. I conferred with a couple of TDI owners on the mpg issue. DBCassidy
