Ethanol update reports $1.09/gal fuel savings

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,001
    15,843
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus


    The working paper and two updates are available from here (thanks Haudy Kazemi at Prius Technical Stuff):

    > The Impact of Ethanol Production on U.S. and Regional
    > Gasoline Prices and on the Profitability of the
    > U.S. Oil Refinery Industry
    > Xiaodong Du and Dermot J. Hayes
    > Working Paper 08-WP 467
    > April 2008
    >
    > CARD: Impact of Ethanol Production on U.S. and Regional Gasoline Prices and on the Profitability of the U.S. Oil Refinery Industry, The
    > http://www.card.iastate.edu/publications/dbs/pdffiles/08wp467.pdf
    >
    >
    > May 2009 update:
    > CARD: The Impact of Ethanol Production on US and Regional Gasoline Markets: An Update to May 2009
    > http://www.card.iastate.edu/publications/dbs/pdffiles/11wp523.pdf
    >
    > May 2012 update:
    > CARD: The Impact of Ethanol Production on U.S. and Regional Gasoline Markets: An Update to 2012
    > http://www.card.iastate.edu/publications/dbs/pdffiles/12wp528.pdf

    The 2008 working paper became a published article which is available for a fee:
    ScienceDirect.com - Energy Policy - The impact of ethanol production on US and regional gasoline markets

    The model that Dr. Hayes and Dr. Du developed in 2008 uses data spanning from 1995 through 2011. The two updates simply extended the original model to more current years. What woke everyone up was the model says we saved about $1.09/gallon in 2011 because of the nearly universal, E10. Needless to say, some folks took exception to the conclusion from the most recent "UPDATE" report.

    This is a pretty technical set of papers and all three need to be read. They introduced two technical terms, "crack ratio" and "crack spread", that are used in refining to identify the quality of crude oil. An oil with a higher crack ratio refines into a larger fraction of gasoline versus a lower crack ratio oil. What the professors' model does is identify ethanol as improving the 'crack ratio' as it delivers more automotive fuel than existing oil supplies can provide. In effect, it upgrades the effective quality of the well-to-tank supply.

    Now I can not defend their methodology because it depends upon getting a mass of data from the US Energy Information Administration (EIA), U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), and doing some heavy-lifting calculations. Their model is based upon seven metrics. But what I understand from the description, they used a modified least squares approach that incorporated a two-part, error correction step. They let the data from these seven metrics determine the coefficients needed to calculate the fuel savings. Then they applied the model to current data from the EIA.

    Sad to say, the UPDATE papers could have been a little clearer:
    • units - the coefficients and variables use to calculate the cost savings are presented without units. So we see one term is in barrels that get converted to gallons but another is not shown. In private e-mail, the second term is supposed to be in barrels(?) but we don't see the conversion. They really should have published the units.
    • describe the seven variables in more detail in the UPDATE papers - the original working and published papers do a much better job.

    What attracted me to this report are how many of their conclusions match observable facts:
    • loss of refinery profits - the EIA reports gasoline margins are $0.10/gal while fuel oils are $0.50/gal. This helps explain the gasoline vs diesel price difference. Also, Sunoco has already idled two refineries and plans to idle another East Coast refinery in June/July.
    • market concentration effect - the whole West Coast is suffering significant fuel costs because there are only a handful of refineries and one had a major fire and loss of production this winter. The others have been slow to come back online. The Sunoco refinery sale or shutdown will do to the East Coast what refinery problems have done to the West Coast.
    I am by no means an expert in their methodology. I struggled through the papers and UPDATES to get some understanding. But a lot of it rings true.

    Now I don't care about the energy costs of producing ethanol since natural gas, coal, and diesel are not fuels that can fill-up our Prius. Ethanol is another way to convert non-transportation fuels into Prius fuel ... I'm all for it.

    I'm also not worried about the impact on food prices. As I pointed out to a hog farming operator, cheap pork won't be of any use if the customer's can't drive to the supermarket to buy it.

    I would also observe that we can make ethanol plants but making crude oil is a lot harder with time-scales measured in millions of years. Furthermore, we are still at the bottom of the "S" curve and ethanol production efficiencies continue to improve. But ethanol also breaks the monopoly on Prius fuel.

    I also like the fact that ethanol production includes 'fixing' CO{2} by the plants. Perhaps not as well as a bog or future oil/coal field but still less bad than releasing fossil carbon back into the atmosphere. As for carbon sequestration, it is oil marketing for gas-injection to extract more oil from a nearly depleted field.

    So I've ordered an E85 kit for our Prius, the older 2003 one. If it works as expected, it will become a 'flex fuel' car. I have no idea how long it will run but know only one way to find out ... do the experiment.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,625
    4,157
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    In engineering one needs to decide if numbers are in range, and that number is out of range. Since E10 is only 10% ethanol and provides 7% of the energy, it seems on the face of it outside of bounds to attribute a 25% cost reduction. The only way to get here is ignore other components that could be substituted for the ethanol. These components could have been provided from oil, or natural gas, coal, or other agricultural products. The analysis is quite flawed if cost effective substitutes are not explored, as oil companies would surely do. The big difference seems to be refining capacity not ethanol substitution.

    It sounds like a good experiment. One thing I would caution is that the Gen I ICE is underpowered and an E85 conversion might reduce power further if heavy engine modifications are not done.
     
  3. MJFrog

    MJFrog Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    780
    267
    0
    Location:
    NE Oklahoma
    Vehicle:
    2018 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    N/A
    This seems like a rather ridiculous report to me.
    X = cost to produce and transport .1 gal of E0 gasoline
    Y = cost to produce and transport .1 gal of ethanol
    X-Y = savings (expense) per gal of gasoline for E10 gasoline vs E0 gasoline

    What's so difficult about that?

    The harder question is...do we really want/need to do that?
     
  4. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    1,066
    756
    0
    Location:
    Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    Doesn't see quite plausible to me. The effect clearly is not the direct impact of ethanol, at 10% of the fuel. It has to be an inferred impact via elasticity of demand. That is, tipping a little more fuel into the supply pool results in a substantial price decrease in order get the market to clear.

    I looked briefly at their model. There are a lot of things not to like.

    What seems more plausible is their unadjusted result, which is that ethanol production lowers gas prices by 17%. So, dump another 10% into the pool of available fuel, and the price drops 17% below where it would otherwise be, to get the market to clear? That's ballpark with other estimates.

    A typical estimate of long-run elasticity of demand for gasoline is about 0.6. Or so.
    What's the Price Elasticity of Demand for Gasoline? (Hint: It isn't zero)

    That is, 10% increase in price, in the long run, generates 6% reduction in quantity demanded, all other things equal. Inverting that, the 10%/6% ratio is in the ballpark of 17%/10% estimated early in this paper.

    How they got that, from refiner margins/crack spread alone, I can't fathom. But just assuming that ethanol is a substitute for gasoline, bumping supply up by 10% ought to require a (roughly) 17% price drop to clear the market, in the long run, all other things equal. For what that's worth.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  5. sdtundra

    sdtundra Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    1,314
    193
    0
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Good luck I'm curious how this turns out. A majority of people I hang out with have converted to E85 and my truck is also flex fuel and I run E85 if i'm in the area of the station. They are seeing higher power numbers due to E85's higher energy content I assume but also are getting 14mpg vs. the 20-22 they got before switching.
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,001
    15,843
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    That gives a static, today only price contribution. Using commodity prices, E10 looks to have an $0.08/gal effect. However, the Du/Hayes model incorporates these factors:
    • Crude and Product Market Conditions - in effect, the commodity price spread between crude and refinery products. What ethanol does is upgrade cheaper stocks into more product, usually downstream of the refinery, at the blender. It has the effect of 'softening' the demand for crude by taking some of the demand.
    • Refinery Capacity and Capacity Utilization - ethanol is typically added downstream of the refinery, reducing the demand on refinery capacity.
    • Market Concentration - this is in effect the degree that a few refineries dominate a market, a defacto monopoly. In contrast, the number of ethanol plants in the midwest are counted in the hundreds and growing. This further limits the ability of a few refineries to set a higher price.
    • Unexpected Supply Disruptions - part of their model, it covers such things as Gulf of Mexico storms that shutdown production. In contrast, the distributed nature of ethanol production limits, but does not eliminate, the effect of a supply disruption.
    • Gasoline Imports - this is one area where their model and the EIS data shows we have become a gasoline and ethanol exporter. This in effect reverses the transportation costs of fuel.
    • Ethanol Production - increased from ~1 B /yr to ~14 B /yr, so now it fully meets the production levels for E10.
    • Seasonality - their model accounts for the seasonal nature of gasoline sales (and prices.)
    So is the real number $0.08/gal or $1.09/gal? I'm not sure. But given what ethanol does to soften the gasoline market, I'm sure it is higher than just the $0.08/gal difference between commodity prices. Long term, the limits of fossil oil means we'll have to find alternatives and today, ethanol remains the current, mass production alternative. Others may follow but this is the world we live in today.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. MJFrog

    MJFrog Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    780
    267
    0
    Location:
    NE Oklahoma
    Vehicle:
    2018 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    N/A
    I'd be more inclined to go with the $.08/gal difference myself. I'm not going to dispute any of what you say above as I'm no expert and am not interested in doing the research either. But if the ethanol is produced from grains (esp. corn), I don't think it's worth all the hassle. That corn could just as easily be exported to other countries (and reduce our trade deficit) as save a few pennies per gal of gasoline.
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,001
    15,843
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I agree that it could be a lot better. Too many:
    [​IMG]
    I think it needs a little more editing and possibly some supporting links to source data.
    Does elasticity also have an inverse function:
    • 10% increase in price -> -2.6% demand (one year interval)
    • -2.6% availability -> 10% increase in price (?)
    Even if we take the multi-year case, 6%, it suggests small changes in supply, especially when working near the limits, could and should have wide variations in price. Into this mix comes ethanol that serves to buffer the worst price hikes ... or so I'm thinking.

    But I quite agree that a lot of their machinations are not clear. Certainly it would take a lot of time to replicate their work based upon what they've shared. If nothing else, they need a good editor to help them get their methodology on paper so others can try to replicate it.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,625
    4,157
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    I skimmed the paper, and the summary is, they estimated what refiners would charge for gasoline based on the price of oil, and estimated the impact of ethanol as the difference in prices.

    There are a number of flaws with this. The first is that they assume that refinery markup is a percentage of the cost of oil, while most of it is based on the cost of equipment, people, and regulations. The second, which is why the midwest gets such a boost, is with the midwest oil boom and lack of transportation of the oil through pipelines, the cost of oil is lower to these midwest refiners. The third is they go from a period of too little refining capacity to excess capacity, and assume that total change had to do with ethanol substitution.

    If you back out of these assumptions most of the change had to do with refining capacity, not ethanol, although ethanol plays a part. Remove the ethanol mandate, the mixing subsidy, the sugar tarrif, and allow mixers to use ethanol, methanol or other octane boosters to that E10 level, and results will be different. Prices would be higher, but demand lower, and these would be nowhere near the estimates in the paper.

    Since E10 has 97% of the energy of E0, and the subsidy is $0.055 the answer if refinery capacity was added would be close to the difference.

    Price(E0) - (0.9xPrice(E0) +0.1Price(Ethanol))/.97 + $0.055 subsidy = about 13 cents

    This is nowhere near the result the authors found. It would have also reduced demand just as the E10 mandate and subsidy has done, but done less damage to the environment.:)

    Nebraska's Unleaded Gasoline and Ethanol Average Rack Prices
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,001
    15,843
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    No problem here.

    The EIA reports the margin as lower than that of other distillates such as diesel:
    Short-Term Energy Outlook - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

    I am pretty sure that the EIA sees the price of oil being the major part, not "cost of equipment, people, and regulations." Regardless, there is at least a $0.19 difference between gasoline and diesel wholesale price. The EIA reports it as relative demand and Du/Hayes suggest ethanol.

    Do you have any metrics on the "midwest" oil and refiners numbers?

    You are right about the assumption of refinery capacity as ethanol added at the distributors is part of reducing refinery limited, demand.

    That is one of the take-aways from this study. If we do exactly what you've proposed, "Prices would be higher" to the tune of perhaps $1.09/gal. Their paper proposes a model for predicting the supply-limited, demand price.

    My understanding is the ethanol subsidy ended.

    When we are entering an era of reduce oil production, it will be hard to find investors. Even today, Sunoco plans to sell or shutdown their largest of three refineries in Philadelphia. If building a refinery is such a great idea, how come no one is running to buy the Sunoco facility, yet. My understanding is there are two, smaller Sunoco refineries in the area ... buy them and restart?

    I can't replicate their methodology, there are too many gaps in the papers. However, I am pretty sure that a shortage to meet demand can cause substantial price changes. Having seen a substantial swing just this year, I'm open to a better model. But so far, theirs seems to match what we find in the EIA data.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,625
    4,157
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    This is true, but also can easily be explained. The demand for exported diesel raises margin as there is a shortage of refining capability for lower grades of crude in Europe.

    Oil is the main contributor to the price of fuel as the EIA says, but the amount that refiners add to that cost depends mainly on their costs not just the price of oil. This is why IMHO its a bad assumption on Du/Hayes part.

    Keystone Oil Pipeline Seen Raising Gas Prices in Midwest: Energy - Bloomberg
    The oil sold for $23.38 less per barrel in 2011 compared withheavy grades of Mexican crude, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

    Which means prices are part of it. We have a regulatory environment in california that reduced investment in refineries giving a price spike on the west coast this year. There are other ways such as an oil tax to pay for refinery subsidy that would increase refining capacity. Regulations in the midwest and gulf coast have caused refining investments, while the east coast and california don't have enough investment.

    Refining is not a good business, but shortages of refineries cause prices of refined products to go up. This has made investments to upgrade refineries on the gulf coast and midwest profitable. The east coast refineries can not handle the lower grades of oil. The regulatory environment as well as age of the refineries greatly changes the economics. Instead of the ethanol mandate, an oil tax and refinery subsidy could have been put in place, with the EPA making refinery regulations more uniform.

    The big problem with the model is it does not take into account the changes in oil production, gulf coast refinery investment, and reduction in gasoline consumption. Allowing oil companies to add up to 10% ethanol would also have a buffering affect during oil price spikes and refining shortages without the historic reduction in building refining capacity. The study is looking at a complex set of factors without modeling them and coming up with an obviously high number.
     
  12. Jason dinAlt

    Jason dinAlt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    183
    61
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I suspect that they ignored the impact the energy used in the production of ethanol had on the petroleum market.
    Every analysis of the energy budget for producing ethanol has been so full of FUD on one side or another that I trust nothing. The only one getting a clear benefit from ethanol is Archer-Daniels-Midland.
     
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,625
    4,157
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    The part I skimmed did talk about the oil used in ethanol production. It is about price of fuel though, and doesn't analyze ghg from other fossil fuels in production of the ethanol. The ability to use E10 does buffer the price of gasoline, but that is quite different than mandating that it must be used. Other sources than corn may have a much better energy balance in the future.

    The big problem with the analysis IMHO is not correctly modeling the refineries without an ethanol mandate.
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,001
    15,843
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Thanks,

    It reads like a great deal for the Canadians but begging the question, why don't the Canadians refine their own oil and send it east to the Great Lakes? This would give them access to the East Coast and a killing if the Sunoco refinery is shutdown.

    Going back to the EIA, here is a synopsis of the Midwest and Gulf:
    Supply and Disposition of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products
    Supply and Disposition of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products

    Oil production in the Midwest, 44,887 B, versus the Gulf, 157,397. But the slope shows the Midwest is likely to meet their fuel needs, 12,550 short, in another year on their own. Meanwhile, they have been producing a lot of ethanol and reaping the benefits described in the Du/Hayes report. For example, this is just a snapshot showing a recent distribution of prices:
    [​IMG]
    Here is the mapping of ethanol production:
    [​IMG]
    Notice how corn producing areas are relatively lower priced than the surrounding areas. This is the ethanol effect Du/Hayes discuss.


    Du/Hayes also point out that the small number of refineries in some regions gives them exceptional control over gas prices. California, Oregon, and Washington are paying that price. But it looks like the East Coast, PADD 1, will be in the same boat when or if the Sunoco refinery closes in June/July.
    The last of the higher quality, light crude oil are being burned up as fast as possible leaving the less profitable, low "crack ratio" fuels. Diluting with ethanol increases the volume so these poorer feedstocks can be stretched out.
    They identified seven parameters but did a poor job of showing how they used the EIA data to generate their coefficients. It would also help to have details about how each coefficient can be used to gain insights on the price of gas. More detail is needed but since they cited them, I suspect they were used.

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,001
    15,843
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Correct but it doesn't matter. The form of energy used to make ethanol, natural gas, coal, and diesel, is not Prius fuel. Ethanol converts one form of energy, mostly solar generated corn starches and sugars with some non-Prius fuels into a Prius usable form. Turn off ethanol production and these non-Prius fuels won't power our cars.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. Jason dinAlt

    Jason dinAlt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    183
    61
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I was referring to the petroleum used by the farmers growing the corn and by the truckers transporting the corn and by the distillers distilling the alcohol. All of these are energy intensive processes, and all use petroleum.
     
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,001
    15,843
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I've read earlier studies but most of them do not reflect current ethanol production processes which have gone through a significant expansion.
    This is a recent report from 2009:
    Green Car Congress: Study Finds Recent Improvements in Corn Ethanol Production Result in 48-59% Less Direct-Effect GHG Than Gasoline
    The original paper: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1111/j.1530-9290.2008.00105.x/asset/j.1530-9290.2008.00105.x.pdf?v=1&t=h33t8lmq&s=da3772d9bc4fc74bc424981a1969f398827bd770

    Regardless, the fuels used to make ethanol won't work in our Prius. We're looking at converting one form of energy to one that is Prius compatible. But unlike fossil fuels, we can grow more corn (and other fermentable sugars) and make ethanol.

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,558
    10,331
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    In Washington and Oregon, a single unplanned extended refinery outage has had an incredible impact on gas prices, adding more than $0.50/gal compared to the pre-fire difference between local and national price averages. Price finally started falling just six days ago, after a successful refinery restart.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  19. Jason dinAlt

    Jason dinAlt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    183
    61
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Everybody has an axe to grind on ethanol. The science is really murky and everybody (on both sides) makes unsupportable assumptions.
    As of now, the one unassailable fact about ethanol is that it is not economically feasible. It survives based on government subsidies. Now that subsidies are being phased out, I predict you will see prices (to quote - or misquote - a famous politician) "necessarily skyrocket".
     
  20. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,356
    3,604
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    ...fyi I would look at it from a different perspective. I would say petroleum is ready-made gasoline+diesel, just needs a little refinement. Therefore oil is probably more efficient than growing crops to manufacture gasoline or diesel. If we do run out of oil, then there are many ways to make liquid fuels besides ethanol. Ethanol/biofuels is just an option that states/countries like to support the ag business. But I am confused about how much it really costs to make ethanol and how much subsidy to corn producers is part of that price.