New Prius Plug in less than impressive

I'm not a mind reader, but my assumption is that they wanted to keep the same mpg on gas as a non-plug-in.

That would be nice. Not sure how practical, unless you'd give up cargo space and raise the floor in back for the larger packs.

Anyway, I bought my PIP on the assumption that there would be better choices available within a couple of years, if not sooner, but I wanted to play with this one now.

 

I expect that we will see some huge improvements in battery technology over the next few years. Here is an article
WSU News Center - WSU researchers create super lithium-ion battery
about a new super lithium ion battery. It is way too early to know if this has commercial potential or not (cost, meets all the other criteria needed for auto use), however, if it does, then it might be possible to triple the range of all electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles within the existing battery space. If this development is not it, then I expect something else to come along soon. If you could keep all other factors constant (rate of charge, rate of discharge, number of recharge cycles before losing 10% of capacity, density, etc) and triple the charge density on a volume basis at say a 100% price premium (new tech always costs more, at least initially), then this would be a huge game changer for the entire auto industry. Imagine if in a few years you could pay a few thousand $'s for a replacement battery for your PIP or Volt that would triple your range!! It would be fantastic. And, as an environmental engineer with 40 yrs of experience, I can predict that it will happen. The developments in materials science that are happening and will be happening will be amazing. I think that Toyota was absolutely on target for the electric range of this vehicle for this time. And, if you have a long enough commute, it might make better sense to buy a Volt or a Leaf. It is all good. This is an exciting time to watch the developments in electric auto technology. As an engineer, I was totally blown away by the technology that went into the original Toyota Prius. It is just going to keep getting better.

 

Using 2008 numbers there are 238.74 million drivers in US.

That gives you 561 gallons per person.

If we generically say they drive 12,000 mi per year they are getting 21.379mpg

If you doubled that (which a Prius could do easily) you would cut the total usage to 68 billion and change.

So instead of saying everyone commuting should drive a hybrid you could say if everyone in the US doubled the average MPG then you could easily cut fuel costs in half.

Now reality would net you probably 30% since some of us already do 42mpg or better and obviously 12k a year is probably closer to a minimum these days. BUT...a hybrid or well-designed standard car delivering 40 REAL mpg could seriously cut back use.

(Which would raise costs through the roof).

 

I don't think so...

 

Would you really get run over? I doubt it. You would probably annoy a lot of drivers, but you would, at least, force a majority of people who are breaking the law (driving 75 mph rather than 65 mph) to slow down.

 

I have a 92 mile r/t commute. I've gone from getting 42-46 MPG per tank in my 2005 to getting 58 to 63 MPG per tank. That's a 25 to 50 percent improvement. Is that dramatic enough for you? I also get way better regen capabilities that I didn't have before that help to improve the gas mileage even when not operating in EV mode. The HOV lane access is just icing on the cake compared to the MPG improvement.

While I am fully aware that I could've done a plug-in conversion on my 2005 for a lot less than what I spent on a PiP, I got a number of "intangible" benefits. The better bluetooth handsfree system, HD radio, & iPod interface was a huge upgrade for me coming from a 2005. My 2005 had over 163K miles on it. The warranty was long gone. By getting the PiP, I have a warranty again. The hybrid system is again warranted for 10 years or a 150K miles. I wouldn't have gotten that sort of piece of mind if I had done a conversion. I have the full backing of the manufacturer should something go wrong with this new piece of technology. With a conversion kit you are rolling the dice.

I'm an early adopter here. I know that technology may dramatically improve in the next few years. But there's always something better/cheaper just around the corner. The smartest thing would've been to keep the 2005. It was fully paid for and running fine. No sense in spending a lot of money for a new car when the old one is fine. But my son needed a second car for him & his wife. The Jeep they have gets sucky gas milleage. By getting a new car for me and passing the 2005 onto him, we both get cars with better gas mileage and that's better for everyone involved.

 

I agree if we could double the MPG of all cars, we could cut our gas significantly. But it has to be everyone, not just the 3% of Americans that are stretch commuters.

Us average is much higher than 12000 miles. I found this article and its underlying study on miles diven quite interesting incuding the following quote

Which is why the PiP is probably a much better car for Japan than the US. In Japan its impact will be more impressive than here. If you convert a lot of trips from short run low-milage (cause engine is colder) to EV, you can have a much more impressive impact. Its why the PiP is good for people that don't drive much or very far, which is a but counter intuitive.

 

In California, if you don't go with the traffic flow (and this goes for both Northern and Southern), you can:

1) Get a ticket for obstructing traffic (per highway patrolman comments in the traffic column in my newspaper). This means that, perversely, if you go 70 when the traffic flow is 75, you could get both (a) a ticket for speeding, and (2) a ticket for going too slow.

2) Get shot, rammed, beaten, or other incident of road rage. This is NOT an exaggeration. If you are driving a Prius, then it is even more likely.

 

i just spent a week driving from san jose to carmel and back up thru san fran and napa. i thought it was bad here in boston, but it's nothing like cali. is there any speed limit at all?

 

Then, I'm glad I live in Minnesota...

 

Only if you are driving on a multi-lane highway and you are not in the right-most lane.

Similar rules are true for many other states: State "keep right" laws

 

Let's not forget that 'Very far' is relative.

I drive 300 miles weekend trips at least once a month. Under this definition of 'driving far' I would say that the PiP is the best car around. It's HV mode is the extremely efficient (and yet I also get > 200 mpg on my 22 mile, each way, commute to work).

 

Sorry, did not mean to imply its the only way for the Pip to be efficient was short trips. In fact short commutes, + long trips is one of the places where the PiP is ideal. EV for the short trips, high fuel efficiency for long trips -- and 300miles is definitely a long trip.

 

Today, though, I was jealous of your Volt...

I had to take the day off from work because my daughter's day care was closed so I decided to bring my daughter to my wife's work (well beyond my PiP's EV range) to show my daughter to my wife's coworkers (she is so darn cute!)

I decided I wanted to drive the entire way on EV, stopping at multiple charging stations along the way. It was fun trying out the various ChargePoint stations but it took lots of time. In a Volt I could have driven the whole way in EV and only charged at home and at my wife's work. I wouldn't have needed the extra ChargePoint stops: Today, 62 miles, all EV (no gas whatsoever)!

But also, in a Volt, my daughter's car seat couldn't have sat in the safest place in the car, middle back.

 

I had a plugin conversion in my Prius before. I was able to get 120mpg with careful driving, 90+mpg With normal driving and 80mpg with poor driving. My commute was 23 r/t. On my days where I don't work, I drive 40-50 miles a day running errends. Now that my Prius is back to being a normal one, I'm down to 55-58mpg per tank. You can't compare a Gen II and Gen III. To me, a dramatic improvement would be consistantly getting over 100mpg. The current PiP only allow 100+mpg for a small percentage of drivers out there. Sure, there are other advantages of getting the new pip, I just don't see mileage improvement as one of them. the AER is just too short. Maybe someday when the PiP has 12+kw of usable capacity, I'll revisit the subject.

 

I've lived in both places. It's a lot harder to speed on the Boston roads. (But they are the best defensive drivers anywhere. Of necessity. Collision avoidance radar is built into all the drivers. All the surviving ones, anyway.)

More in Southern than Northern, IMO. Up here in the Bay Area we love and respect our Prii.

But in general, U.S. drivers are far less considerate than the rest of the industrialized world about moving right when driving slower than other traffic. IMO, again.

 

Re: point #1, as I've posted on MNL:

This was in a thread where someone was complaining they were stuck behind a Leaf in the HOV lane.

There are actually some folks on MNL who refuse to go faster than the speed limit in the HOV lane in the Leaf and refuse to yield. I keep telling them: no, don't do that unless you want the Leaf to be the next lightning rod of road rage, in the same way that Priuses have been unfairly labeled.

#2 - not found that to be a problem in Nor Cal. Have driven my Prius down to So Cal a few times and didn't find it to be an issue either beyond the fact that people drive crazy down there.

Re: moving right when driving slower than other traffic, both Nor and So Cal are generally pretty good about it.

If you want to see bad, go to WA state. It's ridiculous how people go below the speed limit in the fast lane for no reason (when it's bright out and not raining) w/tons of cars piling up behind them. They just refuse to move over. Finally, a few years ago, the WA state patrol started ticketing people for that garbage. Per http://www.seattlepi.com/local/transportation/article/Left-lane-campers-1473468.php,

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This is an excellent example of exactly why which car is more efficient depends very heavily on the driving patterns.

Neither car is the best for every situation. The trick is to figure out which car fits your most common driving pattern.

 

Do that in Los Angeles and plan on killing a few people including yourself

 

Warning: My post does have examples of my potty mouth, so if that offends, stop reading!

In an effort to end this 'pissing match' over which car is better and whether the PIP is worth buying (I think it is), let me just say that every time I drive past a gas station and don't need to stop for gas, I feel like I am, at the very least, engaging in foreplay with the big oil companies. I certainly hope that with my next Prius, a few years down the road, I will be able to really screw them!