Plug-In Supply DIY

Well, not only does Ebay provide better security and publicity, but it also allows us to have some level of transparency for # of kits sold and other's purchasing experiences. We would be able to see if Navy's experience is a one off or a common experience.

I don't know about you, but I don't part easily with my hard earned cash, and I'm willing to pay a little extra (ebay fees) for assurance that I'm getting a product that works as advertised. I find the PIS system functionality very compelling, and I really hope Robb does well.

Stockton

 

Update for anyone interested:
I received a Cashier's Check for $2371 from PIS for a refund on the parts I didn't receive (minus a $200 processing fee). PIS also referred a prospective battery buyer to me who I am working with to sell the batteries. We are currently in negotiations on the price. So, overall, it looks like things will work out.

Robb has posted a rebuttal on Ripoff Report. Some of what he says I disagree with but, I will refrain from further negativity about PIS. All I can say is my posts were factual and I have correspondence to support everything I said. Despite all the heartaches, I am satisfied with the end result. As I stated before, I consider you all my shipmates. I reported the bad and it is my duty to report the good as well.

My recommendation to anyone considering a PIS Kit is be patient and expect delays. My guess is that the components will eventually be received. I cannot say whether or not PIS has a good or a bad kit. That will be for you to decide. Hopefully Kruz, MJFrog and Chonnyton (I wish I knew what happened to him) will report their results to aid you in your decision. I wish all of you the best of luck with your PHEV endeavors.

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

Yes, I am still on the same tank. I have traveled about 500 miles so far. However, I won't be on the same tank for several months simply because I have had several trips over the 40-50 mile range. Once the battery pack depletes I am getting normal Prius gas mileage. But that is the beauty of this setup (IMHO) - you don't have any range anxiety you simply burn gas.

I do think that if I added an ICE kill switch for the short surface street trips I would do even better. There are times I find it hard to depress the gas pedal softly enough to prevent the ICE from coming on. I will investigate this further. I also think there are other mods (e.g. temperature spoof) that might help.



With respect to the install, it was actually much more simplified than the original instructions. Robb provides plenty of pictures and access to more install instructions as you proceed. I think he is in the middle of updating them since some are no longer required. The basic outline is as follows:

1. Upgrade the suspension - full instructions provided. They worked well. The trick I found myself was to use a rolling floor jack under each shock to compress the new spring up and into the mount. The rolling aspect of the jack allows you to move the bottom of the shock onto the mounting bolt very easily.
2. Building the battery pack - plenty of pictures provided. You are basically creating four banks of 19 (for the 10KW model). They are all wired in series, obviously. The banks are held together with long stainless steel clamping kits. The most tedious part is soldering the cell boards in a daisy chain. Make sure to be grounded while working with the cell boards to prevent any static discharge.
3. Mounting the batteries - Simply remove the back carpet platform and tool box. Rivet some battery tie downs along the sides after placing the battery covers in that space to mark the tie down points. Please don't place the batteries in yet. You also don't need to take the side interior covers off or cut in an extra OEM battery fan. The old instructions have you doing this unecessary step. It is not needed.
4. HV tie-in - much easier. Simply screwing the plus and minus cables directly to the OEM battery posts after removing the cover. It is easier than previous documentation about splicing in before the current sensor. Replace the cover and bend slightly to account for the two new cables. You still have to tap into the ready signal, however.
5. Mount the Elcon charger - straight forward. It sits under driver's seat. I also put a muffin fan blowing across the fins. That was my own add, not really needed. I did have to notch out part of the charger mounting bracket to allow the seat to move through its full range of motion. It would get caught on the charger otherwise.
6. Mount the front controller - run the ethernet cable from the rear controller to the front controller. The front controller now sits in its own box in front of the center console. No need to take the dash apart any more. You don't even need to harvest the toyota pin for the "Try-EV" tie-in because he includes a new pin in the kit. You literally just plug in the OBD-II cable and install the "Try-EV" cable/pin as documented.
7. Connect to 12V accessory battery - very simple, just attach to the plus, minus and cable tie.
8. Install plug - drill bumper and install AC plug. The documentation is good on this procedure. The bumper drills very easily. The one thing I would make sure of is that the placement of the plug is skewed upward on the bumper so when you push on it to plug it in you minimize the "flex" in the bumper.

That is basically it. Let me know of any questions. Be glad to answer...

 

Wow, what a thread. I think it boils down to setting expectations. If there was something on the PIS site that said "If you order the DIY kit it will ship directly from our suppliers and the delivery time is beyond our control. Expect anywhere from X to Y". Wouldn't that go a long way to addressing the situation? (I expect that he may be reluctant to do that because he doesn't want to scare away customers). That's just an armchair hunch!

I do know that I'd be pretty unhappy to pay many of thousands of dollars and then wait for 6 months. I'd also be pretty unhappy at a $200 processing fee. (I'm pretty upset when we used to have a customer's $100 deposit for many months. Now we're working strictly to a 30 day delivery window. If we can't deliver it in 30 days we don't take payment for it.)

Thank-you to all the posters. It's helped me make up my mind. I'm going to follow pEEf's model and stand on his shoulders to make my own conversion. It's largely "aesthetic" or "subjective" but I think his solution is more elegant than the PIS/Hymotion/Enginer approach. Note, I said that's subjective! However, I'd be interested to hear what you all think of the pros and cons.

I was going down the path of the pEEf approach and then I happened to check the PIS site this evening (having last been there 18 months or so ago). I was amazed by the cost effectiveness of his kit. But I was torn about whether to go that way because part of me wants to "climb the mountain" not just look at the view from the top.

Given the fact that I was already torn and then reading this post and thinking more about what I want to achieve has pushed me towards the "pEEf approach". Ain't the internet grand?

I sent a long inquiry to PIS describing my situation before reading this. It will be interesting to see how/if he responds. But from the timing of these posts it seems like "suspended" does not mean "out of business"???

p.s. Navy, FWIW, I think your posts here have been very "classy" - especially your last post.

Peace, love and plug-ins!

p.p.s. If anyone wants to play along with me as I delve into my "pEEf" project (hint, I'm being very careful to not be seen as trying to claim it as mine!) then send me a message.

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

Thanks for the great detail. You make no mention of the ECM assembly so I assume you do not have this part. I could be wrong. It is a part that is listed on the PIS website on the price list of parts that make up the kit. It has a price - TBA. If your kit does have an ECM assembly we would be interested in any install details of this part you needed to make.

The ECM assembly is the part that was described by Kiety and which impressed me but you seem not to have it.

Does Kiety's post apply to your kit.

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

Can you give more details (i.e. pics) on this setup? The Elcon charger I got stated 'fins must be mounted vertically', and I don't think there's enough room under the driver's seat to do that. I was considering bolting it on/through the carpet/cover on top of the OEM HV battery right behind the back seats. Of course, then it's in the way if I need to lay down the back seats for cargo.

I guess, just push the driver seat as far forward as it goes and take a couple of pics. How do you power your 'muffin fan'? Where did you buy it?

 

I'm more interested in the Gen III kit.

 

I would think the Gen III kit was pretty much identical to the Gen II kit except maybe the programming of the ECM.

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

Yes, I have this I am pretty sure. I called it the "front controller" in my previous post. My assumption is the front controller is the ECM assembly you reference and the rear controller is the BMS controller. Previously PIS had an ECM PCB that got mounted in the dash. Now it sits in its own housing on the floor in front of the center console. It interfaces to the OBD-II connector and the "Try-EV" connection. I assume Kiet's software is embedded on this board.

One thing that was not included in my kit was the ICE Kill switch. I was told the ECM assembly still supports it. I am planning to add this switch in the future.

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

The Elcon will really only fit one way where the fins are vertical, the charge light is visible, and the seat slides freely. Basically, the fins will be vertical on top, the charge indicator light will be visible from the rear of the driver's seat - right hand side.

I mounted an AC fan to the front seat bracket that blows towards the rear of the driver's seat and across the chargers heat sink fins. So when the car is plugged in, the AC fan is blowing.

Also, I included a picture of the cut out I made on the mounting bracket in order for the seat to fully move from one extreme to the other. I don't currently have a picture of the charger sitting in the car but please let me know if this explanation is not clear and I will take a picture tonight when I get home and post it.

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

That is incorrect. The ECM PCB has a part number of 04-010 along with my name somewhere on the board.

It's a small ~2 x 2 pcb with 6 wires.

There is a "front board" a "rear board" and an "ECM controller". 3 boards in total.

I think Robb may have stopped shipping them until I finished up the EPA/CARB software. Customers have begun receiving the new front board software containing the EPA/CARB update this past weekend.

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

I stand corrected. I guess I need to call Robb...

I included a couple pictures of my front board (in its enclosure). It has a handwritten ECMD 5.2 on it where the cable goes to the OBD-II connector.

EDIT 2:52PM:
I talked to Robb. I will be getting the ECM board in June when they are available. The ECMD means "ECM Disabled". The ECM board will provide an even more aggressive EV mode that reduces range somewhat for my short trips (~50 miles down to ~37) but significantly increases MPG.

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

OK. I think I got it...looked at my unit and the driver's seat pushed all the way forward; that, plus your description seems good enough.

Did you drill bolt holes under the seat to secure the charger? I noticed what appear to be vents (probably heater/AC) under the seat that the charger will have to straddle. Is that correct?

If it's not too much trouble, can you show me a pic of your fan install?

[edit]Got an email from Robb stating he shipped some parts yesterday and that the battery holders that I'm short will be coming direct from Headway. If they arrive tomorrow or Friday I should be busy putting stuff together for a while. I'll keep everyone posted on how things go.[/edit]

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

Just a quick primer: the reason why the range drops down to ~37 miles is due to the fact that the car is able to drive in EV mode up to the max 30 kilowatt rating.

I typically see around 40 miles while driving on the highway at 60 to 65 MPH on flat ground.

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

I would expect that the ECM board would be hard-wired ?

EDITED

Maybe the ECM controller takes over the hardwire inputs and outputs of the ECM to fool the Hybrid ECU into believing more ICE power is being used. This link shows basicly how the 2nd Gen ECM works. Spoofing NE signal maybe?

http://media.toyota.ca/pr/tci/en/do...ic_Throttle_Control_System_-_How_it_works.pdf

 

Re: Happy Plug-in Supply Customer

You can see in Kruz's picture there's an empty 6 pin socket at the top, I guess the ECM connects there.

 

New pricing is up on the PIS website. 4KW kit is now $6,000. Price went up $1,000 from previous price list. It really makes the 4KW kit no longer attractive at all. Another $2,500 and you get more than double the capacity.

 

This doesn't surprise me at all. I've had the feeling that Robb was trying to sell this kit with too small a margin...thus the delivery issues. I wish him the best and am still cautiously optimistic about getting my full kit delivered.