"Nissan Leaf will save $1,000 a year in fuel bills. But the real reason I bought one? 9/11." Why I bought a Nissan Leaf - CSMonitor.com
Gulp, you scared me MP, for a moment there, from your title, I thought YOU had bought a Nissan Leaf. That would have been newsworthy.
Seems he is speaking of Saudi Arabia and Iraq both of which are on top 15 US oil import list. ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html
+1 Our Leaf is less comfortable than our '04 Prius (believe it or not) ... it requires more planning a trip than the a Prius. It has less proven reliability. But (less we forget) I don't want to ever feel a part of participating in (what the CIA calls) "blowback" ... the negative results of U.S. intervention (supporting dictators favorable to selling oil to the US) in other countries ... which became the catalyst for flying planes into the trade center. For me ... not buying a drop of gas more than I have to, is a form of respect for the people who chose to jump to their death, 800 feet below, rather than burn to death. Colaterally, it's cleaner, saves money, provides more gas for those who can't/won't go PHEV ... etc etc. YRMV. Does 1 person's philosophy make a difference? .
^True...but just remember...not everybody is a drip. I applaud EV adopters, and I don't even mind subsidizing pert of their drive-away cost all that much. I guess it beats shrimp on a treadmill. I don't really see it as much as a tax break for the rich, but as a way of encouragement for auto tech. Do I think that EVs will supplant the ICE? Not in my lifetime. There are just too many things that you can burn in an ICE, and IMHO EVs will never be much more than a niche car for the eco-chic. However (COMMA!) not so many people got to use a Space Shuttle for primary transportation either, nor was this program much used in its published goal of Space Travel at a reduced price. This isn't to say that we didn't reap technological benefits from the shuttle development, nor other benefits from its intended use. I remember when the Challenger tragedy occurred, I was knocking holes in the North Atlantic and the resulting delay in the deployment of the GPS constellation cost me some minor inconvenience. WHY would I buy an EV? Well...for right now...I won't. I can't for economic reasons. I won't for others. The LEAF is a lot more than a$ 40,000 DOT approved, climate controlled golf cart with seating for 5, and there are more people that can use one than will use one. However (comma!) IMHO it's going to remain more of a vehicle for technological advances on the loooooooong and very winding road of transportation development than the next "people's car." YMMV...
Seems a weak reason. Let's say in the end he paid $10-15k to slightly reduce his gas use. I think he could have impacted lives more positively by taking that money and donating it locally or something similar. Maybe buy somebody a used Prius. I doubt he has 4 kids. Perhaps he could have saved more fuel by replacing the minivan with a Prius. It seats 5.
If you guys visit CleanMPG.com or have heard of Wayne Gerdes, you know he's one of the preeminent hypermilers here in the States. He also lives exactly 1.8 miles from me. I see him from time to time and we've killed time especially in the "early days" back in '04 and '05. He told me that he wasn't always the hypermiler. When I asked what changed, he simply said, "September 11th. The world changed." I have questioned his tactics and have said, to him, that sometimes he's downright crazy. But I never again questioned his motivation.
It seems to me 9/11 was an act of terrorism. A horrible act of terrorism. An act of Terrorism, executed by extremists. And I realize you can trace back the formation of extremist groups and idealogy to social, economic and political realities. But it I just can't get onboard with saying I've chosen to drive "A Leaf, A Prius, An Electric Car...whatever..." because of 9/11. It's sounds grandiose. Self serving. It's the South Park representation of Prius Owners..."Saving The World, by buying and owning an expensive vehicle that allows us to feel "smug". And Leaf/Prius/or Volt, it instantly creates the converse. It's "I" chose this vehicle...because of 9/11..."I" care..."I" understand... You? You obviously do not... To me? Whatever the political, economic, and social realities that create fertile ground for groups that would execute acts like 9/11, ultimately an act of terrorism is an act of unthinking, naked violence. People can buy whatever vehicle they can afford and want. They can buy it, to attach whatever personal imagery they think ownership affords them. But I would never say, that I bought a vehicle, one that in any form does consume a degree of resources, as a statement against a specific terrorist act. I can't argue, that owning a Leaf, Prius, or Volt...or any other alternative to an ICE vehicle doesn't in many, many ways make the world a better place. But the perspective is just too extreme. Bob Dylan said " People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convienent and repent." Citing a purchase of an "alternative" vehicle as a platform for a statement against a specific act of terrorism, just seems way too convienent to me. Tell me you've bought it because you like it. Tell me you bought it because you want to use less gas. Tell me you bought it because you would ideally like to see less dependency on foreign oil. But don't tell me you bought it because of a tragic act of unjustifiable violence and terrorism. Leaf, Prius, whatever...ultimately it's a car. And I almost have too much respect for the tragedy, to want to even make the connection, even if on a global level, one can trace our societies dependency on foreign Oil as a major contributor to the funding of regimes that dislike us and our culture.
Well, I think his point is the fact that since the 1970s, with regards to Carter on up, we (The US) have been involving ourselves with the Middle East, so much so, that militant extremists feel we are imposing western, young civilization, pushing our youngish views upon a culture that is thousands of years old. Thing is, the middle east has large oil wells and the west is sort of empowering others with money, basically making people decadent in their views. So one would be inclined to believe that it is sort of our own fault that 9/11 happened. Our push on Iraq back in 91-94 was over Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, over what? Strangely enough it was over oil. Oil that we use in cars and powering our power plants and other products. While we can find other ways to power our power plants, cars, until we get completely off gas, will still need oil. Although I will say, just getting completely off gas won't stop terrorism. Terrorism isn't just a middle east thing, there will always be domestic terrorism, racial terrorism, just general ideology terrorism.
blow back from cold war and oil CRG -- The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan Fault is the wrong word. It is the fault of the terrorist thugs. But they would not have come to the US if not for US policy. One of the biggest was the carter doctrine, the US military will defend oil. Which got expanded to the gulf war and US troops on Saudi soil. If not for this the Islamic terrorism would not have come to United States soil. The saudis also funded the terrorists with the money we paid them for the oil. They would have sold us the oil whether or not we put troops in the middle east to defend them. The problem is, the US is unlikely to completely change its policy in the middle east until it imports less oil from there. +1
When folk's give an answer as to "why" they do whatever they do (when someone asks about their motives for doing what they do) ... whether it's to support aids cure - go to church - donate to ACLU - buy a car etc ...it does NOT mean that they expect anyone else to get on board with it. Heck, we VIOLENTLY threw England out of North America ... we VIOLENTLY subdued the slave trade to the U.S. ... and the folks that resort to violence ... they're often in a position to not be able to wait until there is a consensus in the world theater. Look through the last 5,000 years of civilization, and then guess how many acts of massive violence could have rendered the victor's desired results, without that violence. Only in a test tube. Hopefully 9/11 motivated people will stand by their convictions regardless of whether they're poo poo'd or not. (allegory) Two were walking down a wet rocky beach after a storm. Among the miles of strewn drift wood and huge broken masses of kelp, were 100's & 100's of stranded starfish. One of the two, as they walked, would occasionally stoop down, pick up a starfish and throw it back into the sea. The one said, "Why do you keep doing that? ... it doesn't make any difference to save a few star fish." After walking a couple yards more, the other person picked up another star fish ... and tossed it back into the sea, saying, "It'll make a difference to that one" Similarly 'stupid' to some, there have been people like Corrie ten Boom, who saved a few people's lives, during the reign of Nazi Germany. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrie_ten_Boom"]Corrie ten Boom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] It cost several family member's lives ... a high price for 'convictions'. Some risk their life for their values ... others just save star fish. I fully stand behind your right to vocalize your jaded thoughts ... by saying "I can't get on board" ... and/or thinking it's just a form of smug. I doubt I'd risk my life to defend your rights to express jadedness, but I'd be more than glad to toss you back into the ocean. .
Yep ... though many can't grasp accepting responsibility for collateral actions, blowback has been going on a long long time. How long? Consider old black and white cowboy & indians movies. Blood thirsty savages? ... or indiginous people retaliating for being raped ... after being thrown off the land they'd occupied for hundreds of years. Our U.S. is not so much different than others, if/when push comes to shove. In all honesty, I'd be just as likely to meet my worst expectations if/when faced with tough circumstances. I'd still be driving a guzzler if that's all I could afford. Driving around the Flathead valley, stuck behind some of the local folk's pickups ... you'd swear the exhaust is less than half burned. It's the best that many can do ... especially in todays' economy.
I would agree that if one said the ONLY reason one bought a LEAF was due to 9/11 that would be suspect. However seldom do we buy major items for one reason only. In my case 9/11 was a factor in buying a LEAF. I simply don't want to send my money abroad to these guys and fund future acts of terrorism. My electric dollars stay firmly inside the US, supporting American industry and jobs, not oversees businesses and extremists. 9/11 did change peoples thinking. It made me get off my duff and convert our green cards into citizenship for the entire family. It has also influenced my recent car purchase. Some events truly do change lives and attitudes. My next car? a PHEV to replace our Altima. I'll buy either the Prius PHEV or 2013 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV both of which should be available in TN by the end of the year.
