IF Toyota offered small Diesels to the US

Lots of ifs there....

Having lots of friends in Europe, desiel is king there.

We have lots to learn about fuel economy here in the US.

 

Most gas stations don't carry diesel. Where I live, I'd have to go outside the city limits to stations that trucks frequent.

 

I'd buy this Diesel in a heartbeat.

Volvo Unveils Plug-in Hybrid Diesel V60: 124 MPG, 30 Electric Miles, AWD, 0-60 in 6.9 Sec

 

Toyota Europe have recently got together in partnership with BMW who will be building their diesel engines. BMW make the best car diesel engines IMO and I wonder if this partnership is with a view to bring some diesel variants to the US?

OK not compact car diesels but diesel pickups and diesel versions of SUV's allow the same, if not greater power than petrol and are more economical. A pickup over here is a commerical use vehicle and I can't remember a petrol one being offered in the last 15 years. Diesel suits that type of use and could easily be offered as an option for those who do live near diesel pumps or have a diesel pump at their business. It won't suit everybody but once word gets round that a Range Rover or BMW X5 V8 diesel offers much more power and better economy, then people will change.

 

I think that one of the reasons that they are looking at converting natural gas into diesel is that the US is sitting on a ton of gas, but diesel shortages especially during cold winters are common - from what I understand diesel and home heating oil are very similar.

 

That would make sense. Cuts down on waste to.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_to_liquids]Gas to liquids - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

Funny.
What diesel enthusiasts forget to mention is that a "clean diesel" -just barely- meets EPA requirements. What happens in five years? They DO have to conform over time. It's an economic time bomb that Toyota doesn't want to handle.
Further, while some diesel enthusiasts -claim- mileage comparable to a Prius, the EPA tests don't bare that out. Prius is still #1 - by a huge margin!
Oh, and from what I've seen reported in the "real world" by -honest- drivers, the EPA numbers seem to be pretty good re the truth.

Seems to me a better use for the "huge volume of natural gas the US is sitting on" is to generate power instead of burning coal.

 

Doesn't fit in with Americans desires of bigger and faster!

 

So a Range Rover 4.4 litre V8 diesel with 8 speed automatic transmission, a 0-60 time of 7.5 seconds, with 520 ft/lbs torque and fuel economy of 34mpg UK/28 mpg US isn't bigger and better?

Diesels have moved on from the clatter buckets of the early 1980's. They're also nothing like the diesels you may be familiar with from vans, buses, trains or trucks. Not great in a car, but well suited to SUV's.

Explore the Range Rover Westminster | Land Rover UK

 

I moved from VW diesels to a Prius because VW reliability is very bad. If there were more small diesel choices in the USA, I would look into them. Lately, more and more stations are adding diesel pumps. In a 1 mile radius from here, there are at least 12 stations that carry diesel.

 

diesel isn't forward...hybrid and EV is. no way people will move backwards for diesel when hybrid, plug-ins, and EVs are real and now. Really? we can't see the "clean diesel" lies? what's it take again to "clean" your diesel? additives, filters, $$$. no thank u. I'm moving forward with my next vehicle...and it ain't gonna be burning heating oil!

 

We can thank the EPA for the lack of many diesel options here in the USA.

 

All these foreign small diesel vehicles can't meet the EPA emission standards.

 

Yet houston is the 4th largest city in the country and you'd be hard pressed to find a station that DIDN'T have diesel at every pump.

 

Probably much more plentiful in Texas since I'm sure there is a much higher truck per capita ratio.

 

TME exchanged with BMW. Toyota will get small diesels from BMW. BMW will get access to Hybrid Synergy Drive. Small diesels will be used across Toyota brand and with displacement up to 2 litres, R4. BMW engines will not be used in Lexus brand.

Diesel engine performs best under heavy loads and on long highway runs. They suffer in the city and short trips. Under ~ 30.000km/year there are no economical reasons to get the same car with Diesel rathet than it's petrol equivalent (especially those small, turbocharged ones). Investment will not return before 5-6 years.
Next thing are emissions. To meet Euro4/Euro5 emission levels all cars are equipped with particulate filters. They must be cleaned (in automatic cycle forced by ECU) or replaced (in some cars by design or due to failing cleanup cycle).
Price for new filter is about 1500 USD or more - depending of car manufacturer, engine and so on. In many cases it has to be changed after 80000km - not too much.
DPF filters (as used in Toyota d-4D engines) are cleaned automatically by rising exhaust temperature to burn particles inside filter. It is accomplished by increasing volume of fuel injected to the engine (or by fifth injector in case of 2.2L 177HP D-CAT). Negative effect is of course higher fuel consumption during cleanup (recommended scenario is 15 minutes of driving > 60kmh with at least 2000 rpm). Few cleanup failures requires forced cleaning in service station or filter replacement (price above).
Another negative effect is mixing of not burned ON with engine oil and the need for faster replacement due to loss of lubrication capability.

I was driving two diesels for over a year each. Alfa Romeo with 1.9JTD 150 HP engine and Auris 1.4 D-4D 90HP engine.
During city driving in Alfa DPF cleaning occured every 60 litres of fuel consumed (and 9.0L/100km real city efficiency, during cleanup consumption rose to 18-25 L/100km). In highway conditions cleaning occured about 2500km with consumption about 10L/100km (instead of normal 5.5 l/100km).
In Auris DPF cleaing in city driving happened to me about once every fill-up (about 45 litres). Consumption on average was about 7 L/100km in city driving. Instant consumption during cleanup less than 10L/100km.
I haven't noticed cleanup during HWY driving with 4.5 L/100km on average.
To compare city driving scenario - Prius needs about 5.5 L/100km in the same conditions, while petrol version of Auris with 1.6 125HP engine used about 9 L/100km of Pb95.

Euro test cycle doesn't take DPF cleaning into account. If it happens during test - it is performed again after cleanup.

If I would be driving on HWY every month for long distance I would go for Avensis with Diesel but for most city driving Prius (and generally speaking small, petrol engine cars) fits better.
And one more thing - driving small Diesel in cold climate (below freezing) means that you either have no heating in cabin (high efficiency, low heat production, very long heatup times) or have to use webasto / power heating (increasing fuel consumption). Not to forget about vibrations (which are really low in small Toyota)...

 

Not true. More likely "couldn't" but not "can't". The European emission standards have now pretty much caught up and virtually all Euro diesels can be tweaked to comply.

I believe the reason you don't have more diesels in America is that diesel fuel is mostly more expensive than petrol, thus wiping out any economy gains. Also a lot of fuel stations don't have diesel pumps and those that do only have commercial pumps for the trucks (so I am told).

Diesels have benefits and are nothing like you remember from the late 1970's and early 1980's. Remember any petrol car from that period and compare it to todays offerings - it doesn't compare either.

I think I quoted the specs of the diesel 4.4 litre V8 8 speed automatic Range Rover engine on another thread. You can't get that power and economy out of the petrol version.

 

IMO the new diesel platforms are more complicated than the current Prius platform since this is a prius forum I figured it would be wise to compare it to. more complicated meaning expensive items that can fail. fuel injection (pump and injectors), exhaust system, after treatment, cost/design of turbocharger, etc.

the closest thing to what we have now is the Jetta Sportwagen or Golf in the TDI version. current forum prius owners complain of costly repairs, maint and unreliability. Unsure of real world mileage but I know what my Prius gets 55+ city or highway