Front Tire Wear

"TOO" fast is a relative term. I do driver training for my police dept. I can tell who drives TOO fast (defined as faster than the "avg" driver in the CORNERS)

If you have discounted psi, and alignment and ONE set of bad tires, you are left with cornering TOO fast. If the roadways are particularly rough and you can hear/feel the grinding of the tires as you turn, it makes little difference if your mountain driving is only 260 miles.

Try slowing down the corners OR going into them easier. DO you gradually turn or turn "at the last moment"?

BTW- YOU will not be a good judge of this, ask a passenger......

Oh, and efusco is right, if you only fixed the alignment AFTER the last set stated wearing badly, then you will remain at bad wear...tires do not "regenerate" or "heal".

 

I had my OEM tires for 15k miles and they show no premature wear when I swap them for comfortreds. Actually they are so new that I sold them to the tireshop where I change my tires at.

But the front tires do wear out faster than the rear. I don't have the numbers with me, but the tech measure something like 1/32 deeper thread on the rear tires.

So, it shouldn't just be the tires.

 

Did he dealer align the REAR ????
I had one side with excess toe out.
I made it to 40k with mine. My front had the worst wear on the outside:


Tread Depth (mils) Integrity after 40,080 rotated every 10k
FrontLeft FrontRight RearLeft RearRight
Inside 14 15 17 13
Middle 12 15 16 13
Outside 10 11 12 12

 

fishertheband,

I am glad that the problem seems to be found, the alignment problem, that is.
Over the years, I have found the dealers to be the worst place to perform alignments, I use outside private shops with good alignment equipments (i.e. expensive ones). My BMW has a lot of alignement and steering wheel shimming issues. Most Bimmer owners are sort of involuntary experts on this. Driving fast while cornering wears outside edge of front tires, not the inside edge. When you see both inside and outside edge wear, most likely you have (1) under inflated front tires (you checked already) (2) alignement. For the latter, you should be able to feel some steering wheel shaking if you let go of it momentarily on a flat straight road.

The tires on my Prius, after 8,000 miles, shows no strange wear.

 

I just had my tires replaced yesterday after only 17,300 miles. I keep my tires inflated to 38-36 so I was in the middle of the road as far as what Toyota says vs. max tire inflation on the tire. I also have the tires rotated as recommended. I had serious wear on all four tires on both inside and outside edges. I had the dealer check the alignment when it was in for the recall and they indicated that no adjustment was necessary at this time.

My husband still tends to drive the Prius as if it were his Corvette but he doesn't drive all that often that I can pin it all on him.

 

we have strange front and rear tire wear too. the alignment gets checked religiously, DH is a mechanic at the dealer and insists on taking it with him to check it all out every now and then. he even brings home the spec sheets to show me because he wants me to know as much about my car as possible.

(why he brings home non-prius related parts to show me is beyond my explanation :lol: )

one rear wheel has been out of spec since day one and until recently toyota offered no solution for this. they are now approving rear shims on a case by case basis. DH has tried one shim (i'll get the name of it tonight) and it helped camber but made toe worse. he is trying another brand as soon as he can get in touch with the sales rep. he wants to get it all straightened out by the time we leave for a big trip in early Jan.

i drive the car very nicely, don't take turns at high speed (evasive action only) and keep tires at 42/40. they get checked every week or 2 with a high-quality tire gauge.

we're planning on replacing at 20K with Michelin Energy MXV4+ tires since it appears this set won't last us as long as it should.

 

I just find it hard to believe the Prius and 3 sets of tires can all be bad. I have been wrong before though...sometime in 1997 I think.

 

:lol: :lol:

 

I'm on 26K miles on the OEM tires. Not bald yet and I think they all pass the penny test still too.

They certainly do wear faster than the performance/OEM tires I've used on my Civic. I wonder if the extra body-roll of the Prius has something to do with this.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishertheband @ Dec 21 2005, 12:51 AM) [snapback]176655[/snapback]</div>

 

Sorry to hear your alignment being out so bad! I guess my question now for all the Priuschat readers is their own Prius experience with alignment and tire wear.

I'm reading a number of posts on various threads on Priuschat.com about premature tire wear, needed shim kits for the rear alignment, and overall bad alignment problems and associated tire wear.

1) Are these isolated problems or common among Prius drivers?

2) Do those reporting problems believe that Toyota is not aligning them properly when delivered or is the Prius unable to hold a steady alignmen?

I'd love to hear your opinions on this. Thanks in advance!

Tom - KN6VV

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishertheband @ Dec 20 2005, 11:51 PM) [snapback]176655[/snapback]</div>

 

I have been fighting an alignment problem with mine for the last month or so, I have had five alignments and have another scheduled. I found one Toyota dealer whose alignment equipment was wrong by a tenth of a degree or more for the toe measurement. This is enough to cause quite a bit of tire wear and make the car very difficult to drive. When I called to give them a heads up they became quite defensive and refused to admit they might have a problem with their equipment. So don't believe what your told unless you can have it verified by another shop. The best alignment technicians I have been able to find around here are at a tire dealer that has fairly new Hunter equipment.

Rear wheel alignment can be a real problem, there are no adjustments. The Toyota region here will want to replace the rear axle beam if it's way out which mine was. That's when my problems started because the new axle made the car extremely unstable. The rear toe went from toed in to much on one side to toed out to much on the other. Problem is toed in is stable; toed out is unstable. I went from having one of the best driving Priuses to one of the worst. But it is now "in spec" just barely but it's in so the Toyota dealer really doesn't want to do any more with it. Now it will change lanes without moving the steering wheel when it's a bit windy out.

Thanks to some badly needed expert advise from a couple of Prius Chatters (Galaxee and DH) I am trying to fix the problem myself with shims. The Toyota dealer won't help because manufactured shims are apparently unavailable for the Prius. They either can't or will not try to make any.

I tried to buy shims from a couple of the dealers mentioned here but neither will answer emails.

If I were on my own I think I would have to sell the car But thanks to Galaxee and DH and some old timers that work at alignment shops around here I think I'll be able to fix it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kn6vv @ Jun 18 2006, 11:04 PM) [snapback]273274[/snapback]</div>

well my husband is a mechanic at a dealership, and he does see more problems with prius alignments than with other cars. the back wheels are just annoying because they're not adjustable, and the fronts lose alignment pretty easily. he's given it plenty of thought and his theory is that the difference in brake force application in regenerative vs conventional braking cause this phenomenon.

cars are not aligned as a part of the predelivery inspection. however, they do offer one free alignment early in ownership because it's known that the tie-downs on the shipping truck can f up the alignment during transit.

 

In case you don't know: Most tire/alignment places will sell lifetime alignment for under $200. I paid $160, and others have paid significantly less. I bought the package and got my money's worth by having alignment checks done at 10k, 20k, and 30k miles. The alignment tested within specs at 10k and 20k, but at 30k needed a significant correction on the front.

Also, some places will sometimes offer free or low cost alignment checks. Getting the alignment done at the dealer seems to be most unreliable and most expensive.

My experience with the Goodyears is that they wear fast but evenly with rotation. I got 30k miles on mine and the wear was very even. I inflated to 42/40.

If you find the front are wearing faster than the rear, an obvious workaround is to check tire depth often and rotate as soon as they start getting worse in the front. At least that way you'll go twice as long before needing replacements.

But I've never heard of alignment causing the inside and outside to both wear before the middle, I've only heard of underinflation causing that. You might consider inflating to the maximum rated tire pressure if this continues; even if underinflation isn't the root cause it should help even the wear.

 

If the inside and outside edges of the tread pattern are what is worn, the cause is likely too little air pressure. When a radial tire has too little air it is prone to cupping when weight is transferred onto that tire. I am not an expert on the Prius but I have heard of front tire wear complaints and my normal response would be for a few folks to add a couple of pounds and see what happens. Dealer recommened pressures are a guideline, not an absolute.

I am one of those idiots who plays with tire pressures frequently and I have a decent amount of practice with different tires, different sidewalls, bias and radial designs... But limted experience with the prius.

What I do know is this... If a tire is at the proper inflation for the vehicle, and I assume the proper size tire for the rim, then as weight increases or decreases on the front of the car, the footprint, or contact patch area, has a constant pressure all the way across. Too much air and the contact is greater in the middle of the patch and too little air results in more contact at the outside edges and less in the center.

Air pressures on a standard radial tire, even slightly less than normal, may result in poorer cornering. Too much air pressure can potentially result in a harsher ride and less traction, especially in a front wheel drive vehicle under acceleration as the weight is offloaded from the front to the rear.

Avoid gas station tire gauges. Buy your own gauge and only use that one. I like the digital gauges that will read in 1/2 pound increments and are backlit for night use. If you are serious about tire pressure check the tires when you fill the tank which isn't very often in a Prius. You do not need to buy an expensive gauge, just one that works the same way every time. It only needs to be consistent in relation to inself to be of value.