"Tookie" Williams, Thumbs Up or Down?

P.S. I shed no tears for Stanley Williams. I detested his “saintâ€ification by his supporters as much as the macabre spectacle that surrounded his execution.

 

Like father like son:

 

BS death penalty works great..No one who has been executed has come back to commit another crime.. the only reason anyone can give for the death penalty not working is that we do not use it enough...the more we use it the more effective it becomes

 

From your previous post, it really sounded like you were against the execution of Stanley Tookie Williams, because you stated, his execution was solemn. How is Stanley "Tookie" Williams execution be solemn? I can only see the execution being solemn if only if you are against Stanleys execution..

 

Solemn means serious, somber, sober and gloomy.

Are you suggesting that putting anyone to death is anything but?

If you do, perhaps we should return to the habit of conducting public executions in the town square as they still do in Saudi Arabia.

 

IsrAmeriPrius,

Saudi Arabians, don't hold public executions in public squares for their fun entertainment as you state above. They conduct their public executions to punish a criminal for his actions.

Are you suggesting the way Saudi Arabians conduct their public town square executions is wrong?

 

I give up. Go ahead and have your public execution carnivals just as they used to do in the middle ages.

 

The middle ages! Wasn't you, that had mentioned earlier that Saudi Arabia still holds their public executions in their town squares today. From what I learned in world history, the middle ages were in Europe during the years of 1300-1550 A.D.
I thought our current year is the year 2005 A.D. I think you better notify the Saudi Arabians that the middle ages are now over.

Please let me know when the next carnival is in town? I'd like to get some cotton candy, win some prizes and maybe watch the next clown get his execution.

 

Actually, I agree with you IsrAmeriPrius. The media circus and the activities of the special interest groups on both sides sicken me. It is not a festival. It is society taking the ultimate action against one of its members. No matter what you feel about the death penalty, that kind of action by the government should never be taken lightly. Or used as a platform for self aggrandizement.

Juries are not jubilant when they recommend death. They are somber. The visitors and witnesses in the observation room at the death chamber are somber, except for the few friends Tookie asked to attend, who instead of crying for the life of their friend shout out a political slogan. His life didn't matter even to them. Makes you wonder what they have invested in it, if it is not the least amount of sorrow for their friend. The spectacle of radio talk show hosts and Hollywood movie stars shouting at each other right outside the gates of the prison is unseemly. In the end, the message is lost.

The point of capital punishment is that there are crimes so heinous, so barbaric, that we will take the one thing that is most precious of all to the offender, his life. It is rare, and exceptional, but when we reduce it to the level of theater, we lose the impact of it. We reduce the value of his life, and suddenly, its not enough. We demand more blood, or suffering. By our jubilation and cheer we provide the antidote to the deterrent effect we're hoping for, because we have made a life cheap, and in the process, made all lives cheap.

Our reaction should be one of horror that someone could do something so barbaric as to warrant society taking his life. We should be shocked. We should be humbled. It is OK to take the view that while his crimes may have made him eligible for this, it is a terrible thing that his life is wasted. His actions have made not only his victim's families suffer, but his own as well. He has betrayed his family, bringing shame and dispair to his mother, father, siblings and cousins. Let our hushed tones convey the seriousness to our children. Instead of "good riddance!" and shouts and jeers, perhaps we should say "may God have mercy on his soul".

It is a serious thing to kill a man.

 

I totally oppose the death penalty. Most Western democracies have shunned it - but as ever the USA is being somewhat backward in this regard.

One of my main objections, which this thread has only served to reinforce, is the moral harm such behaviour by the state does to the rest of a society. It's not many steps from gleefully celebrating the murder of a helpless captive to invading countries, detention without trial and kidnapping people for torture in off-shore gulags.

Ah...

I mean for Christ's sake, listen to yourselves. I can't help but suspect that some of you, if you'd been around when your Jesus was nailed to his cross, would have been baying for his blood.

 

It is a serious thing to kill a man.

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It's a more serious thing, when a killer such as Stanley "Tookie" Williams creates a Crips gang which has destroyed the lives of thousands and thousands of innocent victims and their familys.

He's a cold blooded killer who had no regard for the life of the victims who he wanted to kill. He deserves no sympathy.

 

In the United States church and state are seperate. Not everyperson in the United States is going to be of Christian faith, some people here are Jewish, Muslim and Buddist and other faiths.

 

It's a more serious thing, when a killer such as Stanley "Tookie" Williams creates a Crips gang which has destroyed the lives of thousands and thousands of innocent victims and their familys.

He's a cold blooded killer who had no regard for the life of the victims who he wanted to kill. He deserves no sympathy.

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Agreed. That's the point. Its not a comedy routine, its the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime. It should have great impact on us, and to the extent we trivialize it, we blunt its impact on others. Whatever deterrent effect we hope for is lost.

 

Juxtapositions are sometimes funny:

Liberals:
Guns, bad. "Guns kill."
Death Penalty, bad. "Save the (four time) convicted murderer."
Abortions, good. "Kill the innocent unborn baby."

Conservatives:
Guns, good. "Only bad people kill with guns."
Death Penalty, good. "Kill all convicted murderers."
Abortions, bad. "Let the innocent live."

USA Firearm homicides in 2003: 11,829
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

USA inmates executed in 2004: 59
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cp.htm

Approximate number of abortions annually in the USA: 1,370,000
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortions...ortionstats.htm

 

Ok. My 2 cents.

Tookie got less than he deserved. He should have been executed a long, long time ago. The death penalty is a deterent, but after 24 years, it loses it's meaning. I agree with the previous poster that said 5 years max on death row.

To the poster that mentioned "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", bravo. You are correct. When you are not afraid of the consequences, you are not deterred. This inspires more crime. I think Chris Rock mentioned that someone coming out of prison gets more street respect than someone who just graduated from college. This is sad, but probably true.

This brings me to the "barbaric" punishments mentioned earlier. Criminals must be afraid of the punishment. If I can go to death row and get free room and board, then get in good graces with some naive big names, I may get away with it. What real fear does free room and board for 24 years inspire ? What fear does taking a nap and not waking up inspire compared to watching your daughter and spouse blown away with a sawed off shotgun ? Sometimes the greater good is served by doing distasteful things. I think Tookie should have swung from a tree within 2 years of being convicted.

If you find my comments "barbaric" go rent "A Time to Kill". Or better yet, read the book. The things described in the book were 10 times worse for that little girl than what they showed in the movie. I'm a pretty big guy, but my eyes were very wet as I read it.

In summary, do it faster and make it a worse punishment (if possible, match what the criminal did). Potential criminals will see this and imagine it is them receiving the punishment. This has a better chance of deterent than the 24 years followed by a peaceful nap.

 

Did it ever occur to you that the USA is forward thinking and the rest of the world ie. EU is backward in this regard?? It seems they are backward in so many other areas.

 

I take a months long hiatus from this board, come back, and everyone's a conservative now. Wonderful; I must be dreaming...

Gov. Arnold is to be commended; his decision not to spare Mr. Williams was courageous.

 

Yes they are, they make sure every child get immunized, they have the lowest infant mortality rates and no matter anything else, you will always have health care until the day you die...barbarians!

 

imntacrook makes some valid points. If abortion is declared illegal, we will save the lives of over a million people. And if all handguns are banned, we will save the lives of almost 12,000. Any pro-life person would see that the taking of any life, even those of a few criminals is an abomination and would be hypocritical to say it's OK to kill a person, be it abortion or lethal injection!

 

Generalizations always break down at some point, but most pro-life people I know talk about "innocent life" rather than "all life". They recognize there's a difference between someone who hasn't harmed anyone and someone who's committed multiple murders.