Confused by the talk about not using the electric motor

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jtmhog\";p=\"100664)</div>

Overdrive is just like in other cars except Prius manages to do it without shifting gears.
The purpose of it is the same: To cruise with very low RPM.

So the overdrive state might be cruising along on level road at say 55 with engine at 1750 rpm. At other times the RPM imght be 2500 (esp in winter) at the same speed.

I think I read the Prius does this by swapping the motor and generator functions.
It is a definite switch like change you can see when you are going along steady at 55-65 and the mileage is reading like 52 and it suddenly jumps up to 70 mpg.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Legrange\";p=\"100706)</div>

I use a tach in my OBDII instrument mostly for winter warm ups so I can see where I'm at. For the engine I can pretty much hear it and judge via the Instant MPG readout. I use the battery display for under 40 driving, for highway I try to get the instant bar up over 50 as much as possible, preferably over 60 on level cruising. For hills I know on my commute I let it go to 40 mpg since that holds my speed pretty well.

To tell if I am going up or down hill, I check the elevation readout on my Garmin. Then I can see if the MPG should be so low or not when it drops.

On another note: I just added more battery mode to my driving. No results yet, but it is pretty interesting. I am trying out that new 1B stage
described in the knowledge base. It lets me get down my street on battery, and only start the engine where I need it for some hill sections, or for the real highway. Much of my run to the highway is coasting down hill. And it gives me one more reason why I just have to have an EV button in my car!

 

You see, that is the problem with the overly simplified animations. The MFD only shows 1 MG but we know there are actually 2; MG1 & MG2.
When you are coasting or braking, MG2 (50kW) will function as a generator to convert the Kinetic energy to Electrical energy and this will be used to power MG1 (10kW) which now has to act as a motor to reduce the drag caused by ICE and to prevent it from spinning backward.

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I really wish they would show both motors.... I know for the general public they don't need to know they are regening, but it would be nice to have an "advanced" screen to choose also, or a simplified if desired. Many software applications provide this latitude.

 

Have not seen this thread in a while so I re-read it
Got a few new comments to add:

1 I have always tried for max battery mode and that gives me the best mileage. It is the only way I ever see trip mpgs over 65 to 70 mpg.

But in doing this I should mention:

Pulse and glide would be better but I can't do it around here due to traffic.
I never have problems with battery getting low, and this is due to the local terrain. There are plenty of hills where engine has to run that keep me well charged.
And I have come to think in the absence of much pulse-glide the best mpg would be if I could drive 45 to 50 mph but don't have that type of road here.

So in summer I am going highways at 55 to 65 mph and getting in the high 50's mpg, or I am driving slow roads with battery mode to the max going 30 to 42 mph getting high 60's mpg or better.

I could see pulse glide would help get over 70 range, and with more roads I could go 50 on I might get tank averages over 60 for once!

2 Next point I mentioned on another thread but it should be covered here! Just had my SSC50P code update done and the differences are major!

Right now I have to just concentrate on getting the right mix of car heat for the engine and for me!
Too cold for much battery operation at all. But I have seen big differences in the new code.
Come spring I expect to have to change a good bit of what I do, and the car goes to battery mode so much easier, I may be able to just forget it and drive! I will find out in the spring. I have seen it accelerate in battery mode some without intending to, and go up hills in that mode I never could have before even trying to do it!

For now the key to mpg is to use the can view to watch my engine temp.
I watch the can vue and try to keep engine above 150 deg and below 185. I work to try to keep my mpg above 40 or 45 depending on ambient temp.

 

The electric engine is ideally utilized when "coasting" - or in other words to keep your vehicle moving at the desired speed once you reach that speed. This works best in the 20 to 45 MPH ranges. Over 45 MPH, it becomes somewhat difficult to "feather" the gas pedal with sufficient finesse to keep the desired speed. Feathering the pedal is an acquired skill that takes some practice. This keeps the propulsion system in that delicate "zone" where the electric motor is moving you forward without the gas engine kicking in to gear.

 

I really wish they would show both motors.... I know for the general public they don't need to know they are regening, but it would be nice to have an "advanced" screen to choose also, or a simplified if desired. Many software applications provide this latitude.

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?????? Mine shows both MG1 and MG2. MG1 is that little round bump thingie on the side of the ICE that has an arrow going off of it when it is generating. Now it does not show it spinning up the ICE. Is that what you mean?

 

Windstrings, If you want that kinda info get the CAN-View. Seems like that would keep you busy for a while.

 

Are you talking about your MFD?... I was going off of a prior statement:

I don't have my 06 yet.. so I'm still just learning through reading.
I do see in the pics there is only one electric motor in the display.

And yes, Tripp.. sounds like the Can view is a must.... I waiting for them to get that harness so It works with the NAV.. I'm not to keen on tapping into the system.. you never know when a cooler product could come out and I want a clean connect/disconnect.

Thanks!

 

Now I might admit that the 60's were good to me and it does not reach out and grab you by the throat, but I have always thought the rounded bump on the lower right side of the ICE was MG1. It is not a flash back and I do believe in MG1. Everyone clap your hands!!! :blink:

 

I post this every 8-10 months so people can get a better understanding of the relationship between the ICE and MG1 and MG2. Just push the motor slider to get the car going read the KMper hour readout and then take it to 71kmh and watch the ICE start and MG1 turn backwards. The whole thing is well done so you can see what happens in the PSD
http://homepage.mac.com/inachan/prius/planet_e.html

 

If that were to be MG1, then there should be a separate electrical path (Orange arrow) to the Battery during charging when the car is stopped and not via Elec. Motor (MG2 is stationary). Please refer to John's presentation Charge Only.

Furthermore, if you look at all the arrows coming out of ICE are all Pink (mechanical) and not Orange (electrical) Multi-Display content.

What do you think?

Vincent

 

I guess that what I was thinking is that the ICE was turning MG1 that is generating the electrical energy. MG1 generates when turned by the ICE, so yes it is always mechanical energy, is it not? I don't believe MG1 generates any other way does it? Are you saying that the ICE is turning MG2 to generate electricity? I guess that I am suggesting that the Bump on the lower Right is MG1 and the pink arrow represents electricity generated by the ICE through MG1 and that Toyota did not provide a direct arrow to the battery but uses the one arrow to the battery that is there. Am I FOS? I am sorry this is the way I have seen the functioning of the system. As I look at the pictures on jon1701a's site that is how I interpret the process.

 

I'm sure that Toyota just dumbed it down knowing that for 99% of the owners the energy screen is a passing fascination and at the end of the day most folks just don't care that much about how the bloody thing works. They just care THAT it works.

 

yea.. maybe so...but the more my car looks like the cockpit of an aircraft, the more I like it!.... I love instrumentation, especially if it shows something in flux.....
I guess I should just be thankful it shows what it does... I'm really surprised it does show so much!

 

Yes, ICE-->MG1 & MG2 are mechanical. MG1 <-> MG2 is always electrical. Output of MG1 is electrical, so the arrow coming out of that little round bump should be Orange color, right?

No, that is not what I said. If MG2 is stationary, how can it generate electricity?

I think you've got the colors mixed up. Here are my interpretation of the color arrows:

(1) Orange arrows - Electrical energy flow
(2) Pink arrows - Mechanical energy flow
(3) Green arrows - Generated/Regenerated Electrical energy flow

If Toyota did not want to provide a direct arrow to the battery but uses one arrow, I have no problem to accept if that arrow coming out of that bump is Orange color.

Vincent

 

Just to clarify the picture I took was with the car parked in the garage. I wanted a picture of the bump (MG1?), so I put it in ready mode and waited till the ICE started because I knew that with it in park it would send the extra energy to the battery and turn MG1.

 

is it better to regen coast to a stop or to glide then regen break?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(psikot @ Sep 3 2007, 03:58 AM) [snapback]506216[/snapback]</div>

Well, I guess it would depend on what the original speed was you were slowing down from, and the slope of the road.
From a high speed, I would initially regen coast, then finish off with regen brake.
If the slope to stop was rather steep and down, I would regen brake all the way, and green line my battery.

If the slope were shallow and rate of speed were low, I'd glide all the way to the stop (no arrow below 41 MPH) having used all of the original gas that got me going most efficiently.

You kinda decide what is most efficient given the situation.

This thread got a little complicated, but the simple answer to 'no arrows' is this. There is nothing wrong with using battery power. The whole idea of no arrows mostly pertains to coasting. It's in-efficient to regen-coast unless you are coming to a stop, or need to eliminate an unwanted speed increase while coasting down hill. In the perfect world we would use the ICE for 1/5 of our trip then glide (no arrows) for the other 4/5 to our destination. The ultimate pulse and glide. Kinda like how they 'drive' in space. A small rocket burn and a long coast. But, it's not a perfect world, and sometime we have to come to a stop. So, Toyota was smart enough to give us a means to recapture some of that energy in the form regeneration, so that all that gas we used to get going is not all wasted. And later we can use it again for slow driving on battery power. Regen is really only efficient if you MUST stop, or you're lucky enough to be coming down a big hill. ( getting a rare chance to fill your battery with physics and gravity--' kinetic energy.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(psikot @ Sep 3 2007, 02:58 AM) [snapback]506216[/snapback]</div>

Glide and then regen break to 7 mph and then friction brake to a stop is less annoying to any cars behind you and shortens your travel time.

I'm not positive on this, but I'm pretty sure that regen coast to 7 mph and then friction brake to a stop recaptures more energy for reuse later.

Of course to maximize your mpg, depending on the slope of the road you could glide all the way to a stop (on a steep enough incline), or at least down to 7mph (on a level road) skipping the regen completely and then friction brake to a stop (or better yet, throw the car into neutral and coast from 7mph to a stop). Of course depending on your initial speed, you might need to start that glide pretty darn early.