I know it is not a big enough dataset yet but it doesn't llok good. EV WORLD'S REAL-WORLD MPG AVG MPG AVG EPA OWNERS Ford Escape Hybrid 27.4 33.5 18 Honda Insight 61.9 65.0 98 Honda Civic Hybrid 44.1 47.5 67 Honda Accord Hybrid 28.0 33.0 3 Honda Civic Hybrid II 43.7 50.0 3 Lexus RX400h 29.4 28.5 5 Toyota Prius 45.1 46.5 173 Toyota Prius II 48.0 55.5 53 Toyota Highlander Hy 22.5 30.5 6 Starting to think that making a hybrid is not that easy and Prius is really special.
OK, all my hard work at spacing the numbers did not work. There are three numbers for each car. First is actual average mpg by EV posters, second number is EPA and last number is number of EV posters to create the first number.
I'd be interested in the sigma in these numbers (i.e. the RMS variation from the average). I know that people can get higher MPG numbers in the Prius (as well as lower numbers). From my limited understanding of the HCH, it's probably not possible to get really high numbers. Since the gas engine is running all the time, I'd imagine that it's probably nearly impossible to get in the high 50s (which some people are able to get with the Prius). So, perhaps the HCH is nearly as good as the Prius for "average" drivers, but for more "advanced" drivers, you can get better mileage with the Prius. . .
Green Hybrid has some real world numbers, with details, and a pretty good sample size. I wouldn't write off the HCH II yet. They aren't broken in, people haven't learned to drive them and it's winter. Remember the first winter with the Prius II But, since they only offer the CVT now, I suspect that a Manual HCH I in the hands of a skilled driver may still come out on top.
In fact, the gas engine isn't running all the time. Here some example of it's potential with glide and assist. It's done much like you'd do in a Prius.
Well, if I had a picture I would, and instantaneous would be pegged at the 100 MPG limit. In the above pics the HCH II is gliding or under EV assist. The engine may be recipricating mechanically, just like a Prius over 43MPH, but the engine is not running on gas
So... what about the future? The new Civic-Hybrid will come pretty close to the efficiency of Prius and provides the same PZEV emission rating, but the system is slower and less powerful and cannot be augmented electrically. In other words, the technology is not competitive. Toyota will be offering a wide variety of vehicles all using a flavor of HSD. Ford is now pursuing the implementation of their current "full" hybrid design in the new Fusion sedan. GM is absolutely desperate to make their "two mode" design work in conjunction with Daimler-Chrysler. GM is also pursuing the "assist" design at the same time. Nissan will be using HSD. Hyundai is even getting into the game. What will Honda do to compete in the long run, especially if the EV button becomes available in the US? The current single mainstream offering is clearly not enough. Will niche "muscle" configuration of Accord-Hybrid be sidelined in favor of one that's cleaner and more efficient? What about a minivan? Don't get hung up with today. Think about what things need to be like a few years from now.
No doubt, they will all continue to evolve. HSD is already headed for smaller and simpler packaging, and cost reduction. Better "batteries" or energy storage for extended assist looks like the way?
Tideland, why would anyone "give" a competitor a technology they patented? To make money out of the use of the patent, i.e. more money their own production capacity can make them... Economics teaches us that it's often all about profits at the margins... But, to try to answer your question slightly more thoroughly.... on why Toyota "gives away" HSD... it's embedded in the Japanese culture and practice on intellectual property rights... Japanese firms have (almost) always closed a blind eye on copyright infringements... the reasoning is simple... first off, the exepctation is that the firm that committed the infringement will in turn also close a blind eye to the original firm's infringement on the added technological breakthrough that the infringing firm committed. In this case (albeit it does not really apply because Nissan is expected to pay Toyota for the HSD patent), Toyota would make a profit too out of the improvements that Nissan may do to HSD and Toyota would later copy without Nissan objecting. Second off, Japanese are Japanese... the copying (again it does not apply with HSD as pointed out above) by a Japanese firm makes Japan look great against other non-Japanese competitors and in foreign markets... For a Japanese firm that's good enough a reason... I'm not sure this is sufficiently well explained, but I did read that Toyota is looking forward to "give" (i.e. sell) HSD know-how to anyone interested to buy... Best, S.
In one way, it's better than the Prius, in that it really is closing all the valves to remove pumping losses. I've seen many people say that the Prius can do that, but it can't. It would be a useful thing for Toyota to imitate, but it wouldn't make as big a difference for the HSD, as it doesn't have to turn the engine without fuel as often.
Doesn't anyone remember the GM Prizm? Looking under the hood, you'd swear it was a clone of the Toyota Corolla. That's because it was. GM bought the rights to reproduce it. And they did, quite a bit. It was a win/win situation for both automakers. How would Toyota doing the same with Nissan be any different?
If you mean "selling it to Nissan for so much they won't make a profit on the hybrid Altima" by "copying", you're right. Nissan has said they won't make a dime on the cars and the only reason they're doing it is to meet CAFE requirements.
