Does anybody else think the PiP is overpriced ???

One tweak for those looking at financial payback: The miles replaced by the EV for folks like me with short commute and lots of short trips are horrible for ICE FE due to multiple warm up cycles each day. When I get my PiP in 2013, we'll be pretty much EV for local, and ~60 mpg on freeway (what we get now from 2010).

Another tweak: You should compare MSRP to MSRP and account for all the heated seats etc differences between car a and car b to find the pricing of the EV features. It is bundling that is making the difference so large in these early stages. Any discount you got off MSRP is equally available on the PiP once initial demand is met. There were folks paying MSRP for Prius Two the same day you drove a harder bargain.

 

can you give us your calculations showing how your prius is paying you back? many prius haters have come here telling us how it doesn't.

 

My 2 cents, with the caveat that I haven't bothered to read through every single paragraph quoted post:

1) I think question should have been posted in the PiP sub-forum. Why pose this question in a non-PiP forum???
2) Aside from a collectable, a car is an expense and not an investment. Sure, there are elements of green(er) cars that reduce that expense and cost of ownership, but very few will ever reap a positive savings over the capital outlay. The best one can hope to do is try to get a low total cost of ownership. The biggest factors there are a) going with a reliable brand, b) going for a fuel efficient model, and c) holding on to the vehicle for longer periods of time.
3) Discussions of finances all come down to the individual. If you can justify the expense then go for it. If you can't then don't bash others who can.

Mod, please move this thread to the proper sub-forum.

 

What is the basis for that claim of more efficient than the EV1? Only posts I've so far have had speeds too low to be a meaningful comparison.
Lowest speed/power I recall from the EV1 was

Efficiency: 115 Wh/mil @ 45mph.

(other specs at
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/eva/genmot.pdf
)

 

$21k for a Prius?!! That's one heck of a bargain. I think you should send all of us Gen-1 and Gen-II pioneers on Prius Chat $5 for lowering the price for you. I paid like $24K in 2006 with some crazy non-rebate that got stolen away after taxes.

I guess you'll be waiting another 10 years to buy a plug-in when it comes down to $25k. Me too.

 

Most people feel that there is little value to being efficient other than being financially rewarding. They think, if it doesn't pay to be efficient, then why do it?

There are unique aspects of a Prius that you don't find on other cars, but the problem is, most people don't find those traits desirable. Silence, cleaner emissions, and using less oil......those traits are simply too abstract for people. They can't feel, see, or touch it. The only one that means anything is price at the pump. So when you crunch numbers and if you discover that it no longer pays to save gas, then there is no point to a Prius.

I have alway known cars like the Civic Hybrid, Hy-Cam, Highlander Hybrid would never sell in real numbers because it's too easy to reduce the purpose of saving gas to saving money. The only difference is the HSD so people can directly compare two versions, and figure out payback, and discover it doesn't work. Now people are doing the same thing with liftback vs PiP because it's so similar. Too few people feel strongly about the other benefits of hybrids to pay for it.

I like the PiP but I'll wait for the next-gen.

 

My arithmetic says different.

Compare a 50 mpg hybrid Prius 'c' to a 37.5 mpg car like the Yaris, both with similar trims and features. Over 250k miles the Yaris consumes 1666 gallons more fuel. At $3.75/gallon savings are $6247

While many people will say they do not keep the car for 250k miles, they still benefit because the depreciation is lower.

 

so what are the msrp's of similarly equipped cars? i only drive 6,000 miles a year, is it still worth it for me?

 

REV- were those rebates dealer incentives or are there still some hybrid tax credits out there?

 

The Prius PHV owner miles were driven in the real-world during the rush hour commute. So, that 45 mph constant speed figure is not comparable.

The number that I was comparing to used Pomona Loop test cycle which better reflects the rush hour commute.

EV1 urban loop1 with minimum payload is 296 Wh/mi (see page 2). Freeway loop with minimum payload is 223 Wh/mi (page 4).

We have seen Prius PHV owners getting 234 Wh/mi and 219 Wh/mi. They got 55 to 57 MPG for the miles driven with gasoline, which I think even more amazing. One owner's (Tracksyde) prior Gen II Prius got about 46 MPG in the same commute which is spot on with the EPA figure, as for reference.

 

Ok, so you gave up a big chunk of steel and downsized. That saved you money especially when the dealers were giving big discounted due to the SUA media craze.

Are you trying to compare that with upgrading your 2010 Prius to Prius PHV?

First, you will not downsizing this time. Second, the gas price is almost $4 per gallon so fuel efficient cars are in high demand = no discount. Third, you already have the most fuel efficient midsize car without a plug. So, no, you will not be able to save the same amount as the last time.

 

The no-plug Prius has no EV mile to count, it is a foul.

Just to be fair, just compare the PiP with the VOLT since both have ICE ( one poster's response want to count the cost without the ICE, unfortunately you cannot buy both without the ICE, you must use the purchasing price).

VOLT: $42K/40 = $1050 /EV mile
PiP $32K/14 = $2285 / EV mile

PiP is still OVER priced.

 

The Rav4 only weighs 195 pounds more than the PIP.

 

I paid 21.1 for my 2011 Prius 2, I bought it in March of 11, that was pretty much the standard price in Southern Cal. at that time. Toyota has since raised the msrp of the vehicle (2011) by $500. I read of a few who paid even less. So the price paid for op's Prius was on the low end of the norm at that time.
I for one, am grateful to the early adapters who are buying the Prius plug in. They are the pioneers for all of us trying to use less gas. While the plug in does not make economic sense when compared to the pkg 2, it is paving the way to the future and those early adapters are paying for it, thank you.:cheer2: