2012 Toyota Prius c Review - The Affordable 60 MPG* Monster

Fascinating. I have no idea what that means.

Was just about to say though...

Another factor is that your savings will vary depending on how many miles you commute per year.

There are many new cars entering the market right now which average around 30 MPG and are priced about the same as a Prius c Two, some of which are larger cars, such as, for example, the new 2012 Subaru Impreza.

With current gas prices of around $4/gallon, a 30 MPG car will have a fuel cost of 13 cents per mile (USD). If we go by the conservative EPA combined rating of 50 for the Prius c, we get 8 cents per mile fuel cost.

If you're someone who commutes around 25,000 miles a year, a 30 MPG car will have an annual fuel cost of close to $3250 (USD), while a 50 MPG Prius c will cost only about $2000. So about $1250 difference/savings.

If, on the other hand, your commute is much shorter, say, around 12500 miles per year, then the difference is only about $625.

(I'm sure this is all rudimentary stuff for many folks here.)

 

I don't think you can explain math too much in Life. So I thank you.

 

"Even at $5 per gallon, if you get 50 mpg instead of 25 mpg you'd have to drive 40,000 miles to recover the $4,000 price difference between a conventional subcompact and the Prius c. That might not seem too bad but even if you worked 5 days per week, 52 weeks per year for 10 years you'd need a commute of 15.38 miles round trip to drive the 40,000 miles."

Given that there's also opportunity cost, the point is that the Prius c isn't worth it as an additional commuter unless you have a significant commute.

 

I don't follow this logic at all. If the example is such a short commute, it would even take longer to recover the $14,000 cost of a comparable subcompact (I'm using the cheapest Yaris price). So why bother with a commuter subcompact in the first place, much less a Prius c?

 

what about less cost of ownership
so .. service is cheaper
and you have to compare to a car with automatic and climate control etc

 

At 40,000 miles, Prius c would worth more than a non-hybrid. Don't forget to subtract that extra resale value from $4,000 premium.

With hybrid premium, comes hybrid exclusive premium features and premium resale value.

 

I don't follow, how would it take longer to recover $14K than $21K? you do need a car right.

Doubtful. I don't expect that resale to be high. Let's face it, those driving 4K miles a year or less are not good candidates for hybrids. Now when you get to 10K miles a year they make a lot more sense, and at 20K miles a year they pay for themselves very quickly.

 

Thanks to Danny for the fantastic video on YT. Very impressive in full HD!

I can only speak for myself, but while reading or viewing comments of Toyota US marketing people, I got the impression they wanted to downplay the fact that the Prius c and the Yaris are very closely related cars. It was as if they wanted to position the Prius c in a higher category, which is indeed clever, but somewhat misleading. I guess it probably is because in the US, the Yaris is positioned as "very small, cheap and affordable".

To me, it is a pity Toyota does not offer both in Europe, since the Prius c has its own charm, but the facts show both Hybrids belong to the same category of subcompacts, and the Yaris is even in some respects better equipped and maybe somewhat more at home in congested cities.

If you're interested in comparing the Yaris Hybrid and the Prius c, have a look at the Yaris thread, and post #33 I just put with several pictures and comments.

 

you do realize Prius c is actually Verso-s, sold in Germany? I am pretty sure Verso-s is considerably more expensive than Yaris in Germany.

I wish they also sold Prius c, but since it would be from Japan, pricing would be a lot worse than Yaris HSD.

 

you dont expect 19k Prius c to have higher resale than imaginary 14k Yaris...? Why is that? Thats completely unreasonable.

Prius has pretty good resale value (excellent one in fact), and with high gas prices, its resale value is unbeatable... a lot of people here sold their G2's at new car prices few years back when gas was high... and gas is getting high again.

Obviously, anyone can buy $5k used car and it will always be better investment than 24k Prius c IV with options. But thats really not what are we talking about here, is it.

 

In Germany

French made Yaris 1.3 l 5 doors cool manual transmission: 15100 Euro
Japan made Verso S 1.3 l cool idem: 16650 Euro



Surprized?

The Prius c uses the somewhat stretched Verso S mini-van platform, but that is only 4 cm (< 2"). Apart from market specific adjustments with suspension, the Yaris and Prius c are near twins. See the Yaris Hybrid thread for details.

I expect the Verso S will also be hybridized, since there is the same space under the backseats which do not slide neither.

The 1.3 l Life (German mid level) with 5 doors and CVT Multidrive S gearbox costs 17.070 Euro. The popular 1.4 l Diesel with manual transmission 17800! Both are less well equipped then the base Hybrid model that will be sold for just below 17000!

How will Toyota handle this since they claim the hybrid will make up only 20%? One will probably be able to negotiate much better deals for these models.

It is true though that a Yaris with the excellent 1.0 l VVTi three cylinder 5 doors cool costs "only" 13280, and can be negotiated for considerably less. For city driving, it is quite OK, but does of course not offer the comfort of the Hybrid. Money-wise, it is probably the better deal. In the US it is not available.

The question may be whether they will be able to produce enough, although at least in Germany, they will get strong headwind from the VW dominated car press. Well, at least people reading Priuschat will know better...

 

Usually additional vehicle just for commute isn't worth savings, unless your primary is a Hammer and you drive 100,000mi a year. Insurance, maintenance, amortization will eat all the savings. I ran numbers for $3,000/65MPG motorcycle, and with 20,000 annual commute miles it wasn't saving at all, maybe a hundred or so.

Now if you compare cheap subcompact with Prius C, 5-year ownership will be very similar to Chevy Sonic, Hyundai Accent or Nissan Versa hatches, $0.43-$0.44 per mile. This is according to Edmunds Vehicle calculator, driving avg 15,000mi a year. (Calculator is at Compare Vehicles and yes all hatches compared with automatic transmission)

The biggest difference that at the end of the 5-year period your resale value will be at least 2,000$ if not more. Or if you keep car for another 5 years, you save

 

If I am not mistaken, the depreciation differences (read: guesses) are already in the calc.

 

i think pricing and % of the sales widely differ by the country... Verso-s was so expensive here in Croatia, that they decided not to sell it. Our difference between base and top yaris (1.0l vs 1.33) is also smaller by €800 euros in Germany. Subaru Trezia is 4k Euros more expensive than similary equiped 1.33l Yaris here. Keep in mind that our Toyota distributor does not subsidize the prices for the cars to adjust to market - for instance, our Auris is a lot more expensive than diesel Auris (8k-9k Euros), so I think our prices show better manufacturer prices.

But Verso-s and Prius c use exactly the same mechanical... they just made Prius c lower, just like Verso and Prius are very similar mechanically, except for Prius being lower.

Yaris is lower class than both Prius c and Verso-s... you can see it in many smaller details.

Did they say that they expect 20% of sales in germany for Yaris Hybrid? Thats not bad but I think at these prices, they will sell more... Toyota Netherlands expect most of their sales to be for Hybrid model.

I think at those prices, Yaris Hybrid will easily outsell Diesel model anywhere in Europe.
Now we need that engine in Corolla/Auris, and at same price as 1.4 D4D, that will be tops

 

nope, they dont calculate that...

 

From the Edmunds site when I click on the question mark in the 'True Cost to Own' subsection (my bold):

 

OK Croatia is of course a different market. What I wrote holds for Euroland and the UK. I visited my Toyota dealer today (In France), and he is worried that they will have problems selling their loads of Diesel Yaris. I think the Verso S is dead, unless they make it into a Hybrid. A totally new tone...

Well, I have to disagree as far as the Hybrid is concerned. They are technically absolute twins. All Yaris Hybrids have in addition to the Prius c 4 disk brakes, bi-zone automatic A/C, the Toyota Touch multimedia/audi system and for a small extra the Touch and Go with an excellent Navi system, a more sophisticated one arm wiper, LED daylight driving light incorporated in the headlamps (impressive look), a laminated anti-noise wind-shield, real leather around the steering wheel and the shift stick and in the higher grade also on the side of the seats. Its dashboard is more classical, and that is a matter of habit. It can also be ordered with a magnificent panoramic glass roof. (Saw it today).

The Prius c has its Prius like instruments, and seat airbacks. It's nice but more adapted to Japanese and US tastes.

There is a market for both models in any country.

A Yaris can indeed also be trimmed as a much simpler 3 door car with drum rear brakes (like all/most (?) Prius c), only three doors, simpler plastics, no Toyota Touch (but a radio/CD), no A/C, and a 3 cylinder 1.0 l and 5 speed mechanical gear box. And it drives really well in and around town! But that's what gives it the reputation it would be a lower category then for example the Prius c.

In the USA, Toyota has chosen to associate the HSD system with the Prius name, thus suggesting the Prius c is a very special car. They even don't want to hear this European saying it is just a slightly longer and flatter Yaris. Fact is it is... They should be careful not to overdue it, since on this Forum some comments of potential customers state they are surprized it's really so small. Bit it is cleaver marketing.

Germany is VERY different. People associate with their cars prestige and swear by German made like Audi, VW, BMW, Mercedes. They're now starting shifting away from Diesels, but very few people like automatic gearboxes, and they also don't understand how HSD works. They want immediate torque, driving like mad on the Autobahn even with very small cars, and therefore want engines powered by a Turbo (TSI and the like). Toyota has been declared the public enemy N° 1 by the car press and sells very badly here. I must say their marketing IS weird.

It will be different in many other countries.

 

i thought you were german, for some reason... I am sure there is market for both Prius-c and Yaris HSD, but again, problem is the pricing for Verso-s HSD due to production in Japan.

If you dont understand why they are different, I suggest you sit in and drive both Yaris and Verso-s - they are pretty different. As different as Auris and Verso. I think you are looking at pictures and not understanding the difference .

Actually, I personally would preffer Prius-c to Yaris HSD, because Prius-c is bigger enough to be more for families. But again, due to the yen, their production price is probably 20-30% different, just because of yen, without calculating anything else.

I agree on the pricing of Yaris HSD - it makes diesel model irrelavant. Did they announce French pricing yet?

 

No, b/c ItsNotAboutTheMoney's example was talking about an additional commuter, so the hypothetical person already has a car. With such a short commute, it would be hard to recover the $14K, much less the additional $5K that the Prius c costs. Note, that my response was comparing a base Yaris to base Prius c, so it's $14K vs $19K, not 21K.

What's imaginary about a $14K Yaris? The starting price is $14,115 on Toyota's website:
2012 Toyota Yaris

 

In fact, I'm from Belgium (Flemish part), live in Germany at the French border, work in France (beautiful Strasbourg)... I pass the border twice a day.

The Verso S is a nice mini-van and feels roomier then the Yaris. That's normal since you sit higher and straighter. I've been sitting in one today. I does not sell too well here neither, because of competitors like Citroen C3 Picasso, Renault Modus or Opel Meriva.

The Prius c is indeed nice and I'd like to compare it with the Yaris.

Not official yet. The salesperson mentioned around 18000 Euro, and the French get 2000 Euro Ecobonus. It would thus be considerably cheaper then an equally equipped Diesel version. He seemed very worried about the future of the Diesel version. A revolution in France where Diesel is a religion...