Ford says its hybrid technology is advancing faster than Toyota's

Thanks, it was very interesting. I've never heard of Ming Kuang but I am googling him and his patents.

 

Not quite, as for NA DI engines is referred. Toyota presented D4 engines back in 1998 (JP), 2001 (Europe) and 2005 (USA). Ford started in 2001 also, but Mazda helped a lot (develop).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_L_engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection

 

duplicate

 

Yah, but they are quite late to the party. Is this not true ...

* Camry hybrid sold about 2k units Jan'12, Fusion hybrid about 600

* note - Ford's been advertising Fusion hybrid for years. Some of it is silly claims, like the guy who says he fills up once every 3 weeks instead of every week ... as opposed to what, an F-150?

* Ford has nothing close to the regular Prius which clobbers every other adv. vehicle on the US market.

* The only hybrid Ford has on US to date, I think, is the Fusion. Isn't the Escape hybrid discontinued? Not that I cared for that much.

* My Toyota salesman reminded that Ford licensed 2nd gen Prius tech to make the Escape,Fusion hybrids, but Toyota as of 3 months ago had not licensed the 3rd gen Prius tech. So, it sounds as if Ford did not develop their hybrid drive all on their own, it was licensed.

* Correct if wrong, not here to bash Ford, but ^ seems to be the case.

 

Ford did license the control logic from Toyota.

They now have new ways to do it. I found this paper that describe a new control logic. The new Ford hybrids should be using the MPC (Model Predictive Control) approach. It can detect the EPA test cycles and perform better than the conventional (Toyota?) control approach. That explains the recent MPG boosts in Ford recent hybrids.

As for the real-world MPG, we'll have to see how well the MPC approach works.

 

i'm just sad that there are soo many wiki links above... who quotes wiki as a reliable source?....

 

I do. Everyone can challenge and edit the data, as long as they provide other links.

 

NiMH is proven and Toyota/Panasonic has the best implementation. Lithium is not proven, but it is the future. PHV is step 1 on the conversion path. They are too successful with other models to put them at risk with the potential problems associated with lithium. If there are problems with PHV then it will be chalked up to being an experiment.

With lithium, getting it right is more important than being first.

 

fusion hybrid and its sister lincoln MKZ have been outselling camry by about 50% since the fusion came out. The new camry hybrid is a big improvement and dropped the price, while ford has kept its price high. We won't know how these compete until the new 45mpg fusion comes out. With the price difference and announcement of the new fusion, I'm surprised ford sold 600 of them.

That's true, ford doesn't want to compete directly with the prius. They have the tech as you can see since they can get 45mpg from a heavier fusion, they just don't think they could get the customers from toyota.

escape hybrid is discontinued. Ford wants to move those hybrid customers to the c-max hybrid and c-max energi.

Don't trust car salesmen. Ford and toyota crosslicensed patents in 2004. That means they have the same 2004 technology, some developed similar, some that toyota gave ford in exchange for other patents. Both companies then split. Ford and Toyota have both advanced since then. The companies are working together on larger truck and suv hybrid technology.

Hope that clarifies things.

Sometimes its the only thing you can quickly find on the old stuff, but it is sad.

 

Ford Fusion Hybrid is a very nice vehicle. the 2010 was my 1st choice but I couldn't get over the sticker shock for what they wanted... I pleasantly went with the 2010 Prius and am so glad the salesmen were clueless...

I agree, lot of hype for a car that has not even been priced out... And it is to be expected... But odds are very good that when ford does announce price, the hybrid will be on the high end model and to as far as price. I say there will be a significant premium unlike what the Camry did essbe loaded. Also Ford seems to have a tendency to have a base model, but the local dealers decide what they offer and many times will only offer vehicles they choodse to bring in.

 

According to wiki, from 09 thru 11'

Fusion hybrid sold - 47,656 in US
Camry hybrid - 46,715, US ... close, but Ford wins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid..._the_United_States#Historical_sales_1999-2011

I still like to think new customers could be drawn in with a very good 'copy' of the Prius liftback with nearly flawless interior. Wouldn't need to take from Toyota, some but not all.

thanks you

 

I remember Escape hybrid with one gen hybrid system behind. It had no electric AC when Toyota made the advancement with Gen II Prius. I think Fusion hybrid finally has electric AC. Toyota introduced beltless engine and EGR+EHR in Gen III.

 

Well, the FEH was released in 2004, I believe. So they were a few years behind but they did release a very good product.

What really happened to the FFH was the HSH and KOH. That and the quake. Basically, drivers now have alternatives in the mid-size segment and the FFH base model is the most expensive.

Well they tried to get their "more efficient than Camry hybrid" in for as long as possible but it finally stopped.

He could have been driving an SUV in city driving. Drivers report that the FFH easily outperforms its EPA ratings.

The problem is that the regular Prius is an mpg machine. It makes other compromises to gain efficiency. It's winner-takes-all. It's also low-priced to kill competition.

So, other companies have entered in the mid-size segment where they have more margin to compete. Naturally, Toyota have responded, improving the efficiency and, importantly, reducing the price of the TCH.

Similarly, the Prius c is coming to kill off Honda in the B segment. They have a lead and they're going to do what they can to keep it.

The FEH is discontinued because Ford saw the Prius v, and have the C-Max hybrid coming and they're going to eat the market for people who just wanted a wagon. It's on an old bought-in platf orm and using NiMH, so they really saw that it just wasn't worth it to keep the small number of 4WD FEH owners happy, especially given that the new FE has closed the mileage gap.

Supposedly Ford, Toyota and others are working on a large vehicle platform, which I expect will include 4WD capability.

There was a patent swap. Hybrid from Toyota, fuel injection (I think) from Ford.

 

Is there a Toyota Camry Hybrid site similar to Priuschat? Ditto for Ford Fusion Hy, this comparison is getting interesting!

 

I'm surprised that no one in thread has brought up the real reason that the Fusion Hybrid appears to have more "advanced" hybrid technologies that give it the mileage edge over the Camry Hybrid--Ford dropped its displacement from 2.5L to 2.0L. They traded performance for gas mileage. It's that simple.

 

I think you are right! also, Ford is now using Lithium which will probably make the car even more expensive. We will see its performance vs. the new Camry.
The current Fusion hybrid vs the 2012 Camry Hybrid!

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