Yaris Beware!

Dianne, I agree with you--the "C" won't touch the Yaris sales. The Yaris is a great little car but for reasons mysterious to me it is not terribly popular, it was never loved by Consumer Reports or Edmunds despite its value and TCO, and therefore I think it will continue to be discounted at dealerships, whereas the very in-demand Prius c will likely experience premium pricing over MSRP ($600 ToyoGuard, anyone???). My new 2009 Yaris 4-door sedan, automatic power doors/locks/keyless was only $11,600 plus TTT and dealer fee/Toyoguard . . . still a bargain at $13,600 OTD and even if you add $2 grand to that OTD price, would still be five grand less than the cheapest "C" out the door.

I also agree with you that the Prius II and maybe III will be dented by the "C"; I purchased a used 2010 II out of price consciousness, and the careful buyer will now be able to obtain a "C" at an unheard-of price for a new Prius.

The only reason to purchase a Honda Insight at this point is because you are a "Honda guy" or "Honda gal" . . . I've owned a Honda, and I know that Honda aims at the "sporty car driver" segment more than Toyota, but one would think that hybrid buyers put their inner AJ Foyt in the back seat when purchasing the best car available. The "C" absolutely kills the Insight.

 

That is so true. Look at the Jan '12 hybrid sales. Prius, again, outsold all other hybrid models combined. Great for Prius, but I think fairly pathetic for the others. My theory is this -

1) Maybe other car mfrs. cannot 'copy' the Prius because it is so laden with patents, they would be infringing to get anything close to the Prius.

2) Maybe other car mfrs. are trying but can't come up with a good enough copy (not talking about the Insight attempt, talking about full hybrids only, true copies of Prius)

3) Some other car mfrs don't care much about Prius. They'll sit back and watch it consistently crack into the top 20 of all car and trucks sold in the US.

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I believe Prius has defined and established itself as a new type of car that will not fade. I believe it will eventually be just about as popular and copied as are the midsize sedans like Camry, Accord, Altima, Fusion, Sonata, Malibu.

The thing is if another company could copy the Prius, they might be able to capitalize on some of the things people don't like about this 3rd gen.

What if Honda introduced a full hybrid very much like liftback Prius next year of year after, that didn't have the 'waterfall' center console, had an improved interior and equal performance and specs? Some would be trading in their 2010's if this were the case. Knowing Honda, not going to happen. Their '2-motor plug in hybrid' already said to be a sedan whenever that's coming.

 

probably the reason Yaris doesn't sell so great is Honda Fit gets the best reviews. Honda Fit will be stiff competition for the Prius c. Insight? It's over. I'm hoping Honda will cave and get a liftback Prius full hybrid copy out in a couple years or so. It's about darn time. Just weird to have one choice in the world - Prius and that's it. But, Honda is NOT Toyota. Honda is spread thin, into everything - motorcycles, jets, generators, ASIMO

 

It would be very expensive. And, it would also be very fresh, ie. wet behind the ears, so the trust issue would be a problem! Even their warranties are not as comprehensive or gracious as Toyota's. Their R&D and lack of practice at this "true hybrid" effort has been sorely lacking. Honda makes pretty good cars but not their hybrids. Their Acura lineup is far better and I'd really expect them to go up the brandline chain as Toyota's done with Lexus. At this point, with Toyota so far ahead with a dozen different hybrid models (Lexus included) over the years, Honda's going to have to find a better mousetrap somehow to garner the sort of faith and trust Toyota's earned.

Just my personal & professional opinions, mind you.

 

Honda will get there, but it will be quite some time. In 10 years or so, every major mfr. ought to have a 'Prius-like' offering to *try* to compete with it.

If Toyota can get a little more acceleration power out of the v, retain the MPGs, it could become the benchmark family car IF Americans can get over their fetish with trunks. Need wagon / hatch shape to define as a real hybrid, not just another hybrid version of family sedan.

Need Prius v to take away from the 24 MPG utes. But it will be tough. Sister in CO really wants AWD for the snow, as in CR-V AWD in few years.

Honda does some odd things - in motorcycles, they have bread and butter sellers. Then introduce a total oddity like the DN01 which has likely only sold like 3 ... well, not much.

Honda is not as practical as Toyota, nor do they care to be. They are more into style and performance while sacrificing some practicality.

I'm way off topic. :focus:

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Yaris 5 door base - $16k total sticker, Prius c One, $19,900 total. People with $15k ish budget will spend that, not $20k.

 

Corolla Beware? isn't avg Corolla buyer age is something like 52+?

Agree "C" has features to appeal to younger generations it will attract Scion/Fit/Civic/Hyundai/etc buyers

 

Note that the 6mpg boost is like going from 33.6mpg to 50mpg.

The premium is $7.5k over the 4WD version, but $10k over the 2WD.

The premium is too big. However, Toyota is going to start assembling the HiHy at its US factory. Hopefully that will bring the price down.

Toyota is pretty serious about expanding hybrid sales. I just wish Americans liked subcompacts more so they could move c production to their US factory.

 

How about moving some liftback production here to lower prices? Get things well oiled so when the 4th gen hits and is even better, sales jump some more.

 

Toyota was going to build them at Blue Springs, but now that is for Corolla.
The Delayed Promise of Prius Production in the U.S. | Hybrid Cars

They are considering HiHy production.
http://www.hybridcars.com/news/toyota-moving-highlander-hybrid-production-us-36357.html

 

i was writing about what we have pretty much confirmed by the end of the year.
Right now they have 5 models coming in - Prius, Prius c, Prius v, Highlander Hybrid, Camry Hybrid. We have info on Avalon coming in this year, which is 99.9999% correct. Only unknown is Rav4 hybrid, which I also think will happen when new model is introduced closer to the end of the year.

As to the Lexus, with CT200h, GS450h, RX450h, LS600h, now we have spy shots of ES Hybrid that will be introduced this year as well (spy shots clearly show hybrid instrument dials in clearly new Lexus ES).

So 100% sure, this year you will have 6 Toyota Hybrids and 5 Lexus Hybrids on sale by the end of the year.

Thats 11 models of hybrid vehicles for TMC USA in 2012.

i think thats good . Especially since new Prii, new Camry and probably ES, will have big sales goals.

If I could have a guess, i will say Toyota will manage to bring their monthly sales for hybrids to 25k by June, and 30k by December, in US... from 16k in January.