Maybe a Fusion Energi plug-in instead of a PiP?

Just saunter down to the CarMax in Laurel MD and get yourself whatever you want with no attitude (I am not affiliated with them in any way.) I get all my cars there, and they are very nice, and mark down from bottom sticker (MSRP). I used to work at several car dealers (including Ford, which was just as nasty) and the CarMax model has them all beat (I am talking NEW Toyota dealership, not used.) Then you can tell the local dealers to take a flying leap yourself.

 

Too bad it is not a hatchback. I wonder how much trunk space the plugin battery would take up. C-Max Energi is a better choice if you need the hatch flexibility like PiP.

Yea, I can't wait for the price and cargo volume / battery placement.

 

The new Fusion appears to be a good looking car, much better looking than many Fords in recent years. That being said, I'd be hesitant to purchase a full time hybrid from them without seeing a much longer track record as to how they hold up. Though I've not owned a Ford in many years, based on the experience I do have with them, I question their ability to maintain a system as complex as a hybrid. Heck, they couldn't even get my AC working to my satisfaction, how can they be expected to fix a hybrid?

I'd not rule them out for future purchase, but I would want to see a 5 year or more track record for their new hybrid type vehicles. As for other American brands, I would want to see 10 years!!!!

 

This morning I saw a picture of the 2013 Fusion. Nice looking. The article made it sound very interesting.
When I bought my 2010 Prius I considered a Fusion .... hybrid Fusions were hard to find at that time. Since then, I have been completely satisfied with the Prius.
The only nagging negative I have is Consumer Reports in a recent article stated that Ford quality was on the decline.

 

Wasn't that mostly due to issues with the SYNC/My Ford Touch or whatever it is?

 

You can see the specs here

2012 North American International Auto Show | Ford Motor Company Newsroom

Fusion is 118/16 cu. ft. of passenger & cargo space. Energi is 114/12. So Energi looses a total of 8 cu ft.

BTW, PIP is 94/22.

 

118 cu. ft of interior volume seems like a lot.

As a comparison:

Mercedes S550 has 125 cu ft
BMW 5-series 100.5 cu ft
Lexus LS460 117 cu ft


The Fusion does look like a nice car. I'd be surprised if it is in the same ballpark as the PiP.

 

Ford Escape Hybrid had a good track record, especially used as Taxi.

However, it used NiMH from Sanyo and the eCVT transaxle was from Aisan, the same supplier as Toyota HSDs.

The new Fusion has the Lithium battery and the transaxle is Ford's in-house. It would be a good idea to "wait and see" but I think it'll be less risky than going with Hyundai or Optima hybrids. Ford hybrids have the same power-split type as HSD. The fundamental design is pretty much the same.

 

TCH has cargo volume of 13.1 cu. ft.

Fusion is a bigger car from the passenger and cargo space. Interesting, Energi plugin model takes up 8 cu. ft., 4 from passenger and 4 from cargo.

 

Camry is 118/15, Camry Hybrid is 116/13. Very similar numbers compared to Fusion, which will be a direct competitor.

 

I never understand the not buying something because of a infinitesimally small percentage of the price thing is not as wanted or missing from the factory...

Not buying a $400K house because some rooms' paint colours are wrong, or not buying a $40K car because a $50 remote start isn't included...

$50/$40,000 = 0.00125 = 0.125%

 

Especially since remote starts are such an energy waster.

 

It was do to the My Ford system. It's a design issue, but doesn't impact reliability.

Anybody remember the clocks on old VCRs and microwaves? If unset the clock display would continually flash. Which would get annoying fast, but setting the clock meant digging out the manual to follow the confusing directions. The devices played movies or made popcorn just fine, regardless of whether or not the display was flashing.

My Ford is the same PITA, but the vehicle still performs its main function without problem.

The Escape hybrid has been on the road for over 6 years now without a major problem with the hybrid system. I think Ford knows how to put a reliable hybrid on the road.

It isn't a simply remote start that's being discussed. The Volt and most EVs can use grid power to preheat or cool the cabin, and maybe even the battery. While the PiP has a precool option, it can't preheat. While Toyota's decision to rely on the ICE for cabin heat with meager electric units is sound, it does mean that in some areas the PiP will be in hybrid mode like a regular Prius for 2 to 3 months. For the extra cost to go plug, this is unacceptable to some people.

 

I was under the impression that the earlier Ford hybrids had a "patent swap" with Toyota where Ford basically used the design from Toyota and Toyota used some supposed Ford patents for something else completely. But the new model including the plugin is a Ford-only design. If true, then it brings that level of questioning with it.

As to preheating, if you have the money for a plugin vehicle and a place to actually plug it into, you more than likely have a garage. My garage stays nice and toasty since it is heated and even my mother's garage which isn't heated stays well above the "outside" temperature and is comfortable to walk around in all times of the year which include days where the high is low enough to cause near instantaneous numbing of appendages.

That's why I see no reason for pre-heating in the morning.

If you park outside at work, then you more than likely don't have a charging receptacle. If you park inside at work, then you more than likely wont have temperature issues. So I don't see a reason for preheating after work.

Obviously there are exceptions with plugs outside (notably back home where almost every parking meter has a plug for an engine block heater) and people who will buy the Plugin without a garage to house it. But designing for fringe cases is not what makes profit.

 

Not correct.

Ford designed their system independant of Toyota. But Ford felt their implementation was close enough that they decided to cross-license some patents.

C-Max Energi: No, Ford doesn't use Toyota's Hybrid Drive System

C-Max Energi: George Gelb, Planetary Gear, Hybrid Drive and Ford

 

You can't go wrong with either choices. Power split plugin blends power using the same simple device that is extremely reliable. There are no clutches like the Volt.

Volt has the wrong blend of electric and gas. It does not use either fuel optimally. Rated at only 60 MPGe composite, Fusion Energi and Prius PHV should be able to top it easily.

The lesson is not to rush it out before the engineering standards are in place to measure the effectiveness.

 

Here are a few videos of the Ford c-max energi :

 

The agreement involved 21 patents, IIRC.That's out of the >100 (I don't recall the number) of patents Toyota had on the HSD. So if it is insisted that those patents are Toyota tech used by Ford, then Ford's early hybrid system is 20% Toyota at most.