Maybe it's time to stop the diesel argument nonsense. Any forum member who wants to buy one should just go ahead, but spare the rest of us who are not interested. The Polo BlueMotion is powered by a 1.2-liter three-cylinder turbo-diesel, 75 hp available at 4000 rpm, the top speed is an ungoverned 107 mph, and VW claims a 0-to-62-mph run of 13.6 seconds; yeah right! Where do I sign up for one of these?
The success of a car depends on how it stacks up against it peers in the market. If this is a US only board where any non-US discussion is banned, then I will cease. The Polo Blue Motion (and its relatives) is the main competitor to the c, and since it has the homeland advantage, the c will have to beat it in every possible way in order to make an impact in the diesel dominated market of fuel efficient hatches in Europe.
This is common knowledge. For a reference, Wikipedia suggests this: Diesel Economics and Fuel Mileage, TheDieselPage.com If you still have doubt, you can ask your local mechanic. And even if some diesel engines or drive trains are unreliable (the old Polo 3L comes to mind), then you still have to fight the public perception of their superior reliability (compared to non-hybrids). In Germany, for instance, VW is considered the epitome of reliability and dependability despite all statistics showing the opposite. I am discussing the competition of this new car and what it is up against. This should be considered on topic.
Maybe VW are cheaper to maintain and service in Europe, certainly not in Australia. Before I took the plunge in a Prius, I was considering a Golf back in 2009. The number of things you have to replace and the $$$ to maintain and service just turn me away from owning one, regardless of its reliability. Then later that year, a lady friend who traded in her perfectly functioning Camry for a brand spanking new Golf. Her time with a reliable transport ended; multiple breakdowns, engine shutoff at high speed, stranded on the freeway, windscreen wiper turned on by itself, etc etc. She had to fight so hard to change her car for a new one under the lemon law, eventually VW agreed to exchange for a new one... you would have thought her ordeal was over. But 2 weeks after getting her 2nd new golf, the bloody thing died on her, this time transmission problem, I knew that because I was waiting for her to drive me to the airport but had to catch a taxi! I thought to myself thank God I didn't choose a Golf! If I ever want to buy a diesel, it would not be from vw, but from a more reliable manufacturer, e.g. Toyota. GT-I9100T ?
Common knowledge has to do with long term experience. Modern diesels can't cope with life expectancy as early engines. By the way, try this unbiased view. Petrol or Diesel ? no clear cut winner - aa.co.nz And I quote "Regular maintenance and general repairs can also work in favour of petrol particularly as mileages increase." Bottom line: if we dig deeper, we can see and confirm that the only reason for European "dieselization" is economy at the pump.
Hey I'd settle for SkyActive Mazda Demio, if it comes to our shores: Mazda Demio SkyActiv tops Japan's "Eco Cars" survey, Toyota Prius number 2 Facelifted Mazda2 with SkyActiv 1.3L revealed in Japan
It is important but largely irrelevant fact. If taken care of the gasoline engine will go more then most would care. This is coming from owner of 1.5L '96 Protege with 381,000mi/613,000km, YMMV
So the life expectency of diesel engines has decreased? When did that happen? They are comparing the two engine types from a low mileage point of view. A diesel is more expensive and you will have to drive a lot for the economy to make sense. It's almost the same as for hybrids, except that diesels excell at the highway rather than in the cities. Since you don't believe me when I say that some people prefer the characteristics of a diesel, you should try to ask the Europeans why they choose diesels every second time when buying a new car. The c might be able to beat the diesels when it comes to fuel economy. It is miles ahead in emissions (and styling too IMHO), but it doesn't have the home team advantage and the price is still out in the open.
Primary competitor does not imply monopoly. The new compatitor from Kia is poised to take the fuel economy crown and undercut the Polo with its price tag.
Vehicle Technologies Program: Fact #575: June 15, 2009 Diesel Car Sales in Europe Still Over 50% in 2008 Note the trend. Especially in the UK. Some UK prices: Ford Focus 1.6L gasoline: #14,000, #16,000 next step up Ford Focus 1.6L diesel: #17,000, #17,600 Prius: >= #21,000 It doesn't matter that the fuel is more expensive. For high mileage drivers the diesel will return good mileage and that hybrid premium is very difficult to make up. Ford Fiesta 1.25L gasoline: #10,100, #10,695 Ford Fiesta 1.4L gasoline: #12,100 Ford Fiesta 1.4L diesel: #12,000 Ford Fiesta 1.6L diesel: #14,700 Oh, and they're offering #500 off. So, let's put that myth to rest: more Europeans buy diesels than Americans not because of the tax advantages on the fuel. They favor them because both fuels are heavily taxed, they're more efficient than conventional gasoline cars (especially for larger vehicles) and the diesel premium is much smaller because they aren't loaded with forced upgrades.
The Focus doesn't come with a high efficiency diesel. It competes with the Auris, which in hybrid trim starts at £20095 in the UK. A high efficiency diesel in that class is the Golf BlueMotion which starts at £18,860 (5 doors like Auris from £19,445) The Fiesta diesel econetic starts at £14095, so this is what Toyota should aim for.
I'm rather excited about this car. I hope it lives up to expectations. If so, it will be high on my list. (though toyota moco has gotten my hopes up before and then disappointed me. I'm looking at you, ct 200h)
it happened when they added big turbos and high pressure fuel pumps. diesels sell well in europe because fuel is expensive and they are easier to sell used. as i keep saying over and over and over, you have to look at resale price as well to determine price of ownership... premium you have to pay for diesel ($2k-$3k) over petrol is also hard to get back (average 60k-80k miles even with high fuel prices), but you also recover same amount when you are selling the car... so fuel savings are free money. yes there is more maintenance as well, and long term reliability is lower for sure. but that matters little if you wont be able to sell your used petrol car, especially if it is larger than focus, it is almost impossible.
but hybrids will not storm the market anytime soon - europeans are traditionalists and brand whores... but that does not mean that toyota wont sell 150k hybrids next year in europe... which is pretty good number considering that toyota has only 3-4% of the market in Europe, compared to 15% in USA.
FYI, The accumulate order number is now 110,000 units for the JP Aqua. Toyota plans to increase production plan from 240,000 unit to 320,000 units a year for the high demand. Toyota is going to sell more than 1 million hybrids this year. Ken@Japan
i spoke to a rep the other day and YES the C is very hot in demand in fact he said the starting is $22,000, and said No way you are going to get a $19,000 C, So YES its in hot demand this is in mafialand (aka: las vegas)
Customers who buy Prius vehicles are not your normal customer. Prius buyers / previous Prius owners do their homework. They will probably not buy a Prius C if the price is nearly the same as the regular Prius. The regular Prius has cruise control has a standard feature. The regular Prius is faster. The regular Prius is bigger. The regular Prius obtain better highway mpg than the "C" model. The regular Prius has a larger gas tank = less fillups. If the Prius C is going for under $20,000 that will be the selling point but it needs to at least have cruise control at that price point.
