Americans Strongly Favor Raising Fuel Economy Standards to 50 MPG, Poll Finds

The giovernment mpg standards dictate what kind of cars are made by the car companies. They simply respond to the fuel standards. It's up to the government to lead--not to follow polls.

 

My wife was cautious about getting a Prius because she didn't want to be bothered by techie gauges or practices. I love techie stuff, so this was a plus for me. Now that we have had our 2010 Prius for half a year, she has taken charge of "our" Prius and doesn't think of it as techie or complicated. By monitoring the performance displays, pulsing and gliding, and adopting conservative driving and braking practices, I can get a mile or two per gallon better mileage than her, driving similar routes. Regardless of who is driving, we have never averaged below 50 MPG (indicated) on a tank of gas. Our limited experience is that drivers can use a cadre of techie tricks to maximize their mileage, while those that drive the Prius sensibly, like a non-hybrid car, will get nearly the same economy without the bother. Now, if I could just get her to let me drive "her" Prius a little more, I could probably bump the mileage up another MPG.

 

Ha...

I like Donald Westlake's term for them:

SAVs (Suburban Assault Vehicles)

 

No loss in performance, huh? No loss in short term performance, or intermittent performance... Tow an RV or an enclosed car hauler across the country, something with a lot of air drag, and a constant load of more power than the Saturn engine makes, peak, and tell me there isn't any loss in performance. Saying that it's good for what most people use 'burbs for (hauling people around) is fine, but saying that there is no loss in performance is a lie.

This is precisely why we have 5 vehicles... I put 20k/year on my motorcycle, and she puts most of her mileage (and our trip mileage) on the ECO 6MT; and I've got a $500 31mpg Buick for when I need a car. She's still got the Trailblazer for the snow (we live in BFE that doesn't get plowed until a day or 2 after a snow) and field work (environmental scientist), and I've got my (older) Cummins for hauling wood, deep snow, towing the Deere 5350 between properties, towing car trailers, etc...

Wouldn't it be awesome if people could convince others of their position based on facts, instead of making up cool names like "battering rams of death," "cop killer bullets," "high capacity magazines," etc. to prejudice against the other side of an argument, or point of view? It's not only no better than, it's exactly like the people who call all Prius owners some variation of the "No shower, no deodorant, communist, hippie, rainbow flag patrol." I always laugh at the bull____ elitist attitude on truck/SUV forums and stuff, when talking about Prius owners; but from the reading I've done here, I think it's more prevalent here (which is sad). It's just like any number of issues... One side says "I'm going to drive my _______, they can have their __________" and the other side says "I don't have a need for, or don't like __________, so I don't think anybody else should be able to have one."


More to the point of the OP, though; yeah, "people" are idiots... The lion's share of people who think the government should make 50mpg CAFE standards also don't think it'll double the price of the (larger) cars... These people are not automotive engineers (or have any kind of technical basis for much of anything they think about cars), and really have no idea the kind of total redesigns and R&D that are caused by even a 2mpg increase in CAFE standards. We will get to that point, but I've talked to all kinds of people who want their Excursion to get 40mpg, and think the government telling Ford to make them get 40mpg is all it would take, and the vehicle should cost the same amount of money as the one they bought... That's just plain old "not how it works." It's like the old "You can have it fast, cheap, reliable... Pick 2" saying... You can have it big, energy effecient, reasonably priced, pick 2...

Mike

 

So... you just spent 7 paragraphs making my point...

I did my Engineering specialization in Automotive Electronic Control, and worked at an engine control grad lab between classes and in the summer... I'm well, well aware of what CAFE standards are...

The problem is that there are a certain number of people who NEED trucks and full sized vans... Farmers, construction, DOT, delivery, mowing, maintenance, etc... Not only do these people need trucks, but they put a ton of miles on them, so they need a lot of trucks. Especially now that the heavy duty full sized trucks are included in the CAFE numbers, even if every other vehicle they sold was a ($32k) Prius plug-in, the big 3 still wouldn't be able to meet the CAFE numbers... Not only that, but the electrical grid, which doesn't have a lot of extra capacity at peak times, as it is, would have to be completely upgraded... Oh, and the people who are pushing the ludicrous CAFE number hikes are the same ones who are against Nuclear power, and are trying to shut down the coal-fired electric plants (that make 44.9% of the country's power), at the same time... You can't just "regulate it and make it so" like these clowns are trying to do... You want to get rid of fossil and coal fuel use? Get to work on cold fusion.

Mike

 

An article on NPR today indicated that consumer spending is up a bit, primarily on SUVs and trucks!

So, let's see...we're all on a tight budget...time to buy a new car that gets really bad fuel mileage.

Makes sense to me.

 

I have not quite grasped why jobs of two decades ago managed quite nicely with little Ford Ranger trucks, but today NEED HD Diesel 7L trucks.

I'll also point out that before the urban truck and SUV craze, trucks make up about 20% of vehicles sold.

Bottom line, I think the argument that the US *needs* a fleet economy of 20 mpg is hogwash.

 

Nobody's going to be charging during the day? Particularly, people who will charge at work, because their round trip commute is longer than their battery capacity.

The grid I'm speaking of is the grid (especially extra-urban, where the capacity does not exist in the transmission equipment in place), not the power generation capacity (though that will require more coal/natural gas)... Also, your graph is only for California... What does the rest of the US look like? Moreover, what will the rest of the US look like without any coal plants?

Mike

 

What the poll actually means is that Pickup-Joe wants 50mpg ... yea ... but he wants 50mpg for his V8 hemi - 6,500lb dually pickup.

 

This is exactly correct... Which is possible, BUT he wants it to cost the same as it did, and not the $150,000 it would cost to make it happen...

Except I'd take the "simply respond" out of PriusSport's post, because there is NO "simple" about it...

MIke

 

there are good reasons for it too if you look at size of the families and obesity rates..

In reality many of them would settle for 40MPG minivan/x-over.

 

That's a reason I worry about low-range PHEVs like the PiP. PEV owners charge opportunistically. We really need the law to treat workplace charging as a taxable benefit so it's people have an incentive to right-size their PHEV capacity and charge off-peak at home.

Peak is when most people are at work and therefore on commercial/business grids which will have, I'd expect, higher capacities.

The vast majority of home charging will be off peak so will not increase the generation capacity requirements. It will increase consumption but it will also increase utilization.

In addition, additional consumption at home increases the incentive for use of TOU tariffs (encouraging consumers to shift demand off peak) and, in many areas, installation of solar PV.

 

actually the number of large SUV went up by the smallest margin. Most increase was in Midsize SUV segment. It is the fastest going segment with many new models released, old ones improved and there were a few SUVs which moved from small to midsize. Midsize includes such SUV as Mazda CX-7/CX-9, Ford Flex, Buick Enclave, Toyota Venza, Nissan Murano, Hyundai Santa Fe, Ford Edge..

 

Moonpower ?

 

Care to ballpark the combined EPA MPG of this group ?

 

20 EPA is a safe bet, give or take 1-2 depending on model.

The Ecoboost Edge is ~25.