The impact of driving EV

Well, it can't tow anything and it' absolute shite in the snow, esp on hills/mountains. It's low clearance makes it a poor choice for taking the family camping. In these respects our Outback is vastly, vastly superior. That's not the whole picture, but many people see their 2% use case as the driving factor in their car purchases.

 

If you don't buy, come here in the winter and I'll be glad to show you. The prius is rubbish in the snow and it's not the OEM tyres. It's the traction control. The slightest incline and it's quite easy to get stuck. It's terrifying driving in the mountains in bad weather... trust me, I know all too well. The car's underside plastic panels are all torn to shreds from driving on streets with deep wagon ruts (snow/ice). I don't think you're seeing what I'm getting at. When people purchase cars, they often have these 2% use cases in mind (towing boat to lake, camping in the canyons of Utah, etc). They seem to almost ignore the typical uses that will account for most of the operating costs of the car. That's why you have people that drive SUVs even though they hardly need them.

 

Gen II. The Gen III seems to be a solid improvement on the Gen II in many respects so hopefully it's loads better in this one too.

We travel on a lot of "roads" in Utah that I'd never take a Prius on... also wouldn't take a Civic on them for that matter. The outback is a decent compromise. We use the prius as much as we can for all of our "aroond toon" driving.

 

Tripp, I have a 2004, bought new. Always had a Ford Ranger or my GF's SUV to use for ski days. Last winter I was down to just the Prius and put studded snows on and was amazed at how well it did.
Didn't miss a powder day!

Agree with you about the 2%. Know a lot of people who drive a monster truck 52 weeks/year so they can tow a boat a couple weekends a summer. Or a giant SUV for the two snow storms per year. Silly!

 

Actually, Tesla put charging/storage @ 90%, with overall on-board efficiency @ 88%. You have it at 64%. If you're going to quote Tesla, you might as well give a reference. Here's one:

teslamotors.com/goelectric/efficiency

I can't yet post a reference to the table image, but for Well-to-Station efficiency, Tesla says:
Crude Oil: 81.7%
Natural Gas: 52.5%

For vehicle efficiency, they say:
Tesla EV: 2.18 km/MJ (kilometers per MegaJoule) @ 110 Wh/km
Hybrid: 0.68 km/MJ @ 55 mpg
Commuter Car 0.63 km/MJ @ 51 mpg
Sport Car: 0.24 km/MJ @ 20 mpg
Fuel Cell: 0.57 km/MJ @ 64 m/km

And for Well-To-Wheel Efficiency:
Tesla EV: 1.14 km/MJ (via natural gas electricity)
Hybrid: 0.556 km/MJ
Commuter Car: 0.478 km/MJ
Sport Car: 0.202 km/MJ
Fuel Cell: 0.348 km/MJ

Which puts EVs at about twice the overall efficiency of hybrids, at least according to Tesla (who obviously is not an impartial source). Now, you could argue coal sourced electricity, and I could argue solar/wind (more of the latter in CA than the former), but at the end of the day, fixed, larger powerplants can always be more efficient than smaller mobile ones since they don't have size/weight restrictions.

 

According to Argonne National Laboratory's GREET model (I assume ANL would be as unbiased as anyone could get), the overall efficiency of a Leaf and a 2011 Prius would be roughly the same (see post in http://priuschat.com/forums/environ...ity-does-oil-refinery-use-10.html#post1355735).

Also based on GREET, the "conventional pollutants" are roughly...

[FONT=&quot]2011 Toyota Prius[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

(Grams/Mile)

Emission....................WTP...............PTW................WTW Total

HC/VOC...................0.064...............0.013*..................0.077
CO.............................0.029...............0.04......................0.069
NOx...........................0.102...............0.003....................0.104
PM.............................0.017...............0.021....................0.038
HC+NOx (US06).......0.166..............0.018*...................0.184
HC+NOx (SC03).......0.166..............0.018*...................0.184
CO (US06).................0.029..............0.1........................0.129
CO (SC03).................0.029..............0.1........................0.129
SOx............................0.054..............0.004 ...................0.058[/FONT]

* includes evaporative VOC emissions from vehicle


[FONT=&quot]2011 Leaf[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

(Grams/Mile)

Emission....................WTP...............PTW................WTW Total

HC/VOC...................0.004...............0...........................0.004
CO.............................0.053...............0...........................0.053
NOx...........................0.231...............0...........................0.231
PM.............................0.041...............0.021....................0.062
HC+NOx (US06).......0.235..............0............................0.235
HC+NOx (SC03).......0.235..............0............................0.235
CO (US06).................0.053..............0............................0.053
CO (SC03).................0.053..............0............................0.053
SOx............................0.582..............0....... ....................0.582[/FONT]

(@ WTW emissions per GREET 1.8d.1 (comb. FTP/US06/SC03))​

(Grams/Mile)​

Emission.....................2011 Prius...........................................2011 Leaf

HC+NOx.........................0.203.................................................0.235
CO................................0.11...................................................0.05
PM................................0.040.................................................0.062
SOx...............................0.064.................................................0.582


[FONT=&quot]All PM assumed to be PM10[/FONT]

WTP = "well-to-pump"
PTW = "pump-to-wheels"
WTW = "well-to-wheels"

The PTW values for the Prius were taken from CARB certified emissions; the WTP values are based on GREET adjusted for equivalent fuel mileage relative to the fuel mileage assumed in GREET, and the average electricity mix of the U.S.

Again, I'm not necessarily endorsing GREET, but based on that model, the main advantage of EVs appears to be less consumption of foreign energy sources. There generally does not appear to be any significant advantage of EVs with respect to either GHG emissions or conventional emissions.

 

You simply contribute for the environment.