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Enginer Plan B

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by cproaudio, Apr 9, 2011.

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  1. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Original Post updated with more charger/power supply unit and top balancing information and method.
     
    #81 cproaudio, Jun 13, 2011
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  2. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Great update. Every Enginer user could use this info to adjust the pack themselves or else have an installer do the job for them. It's time consuming (as you well know) but worth it to regain pack capacity.

    Glad to hear that the Mastech power supply is working well for you too. This was one of the best things I've purchased in quite a while!
     
    #82 ericbecky, Jun 13, 2011
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  3. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    I have found an option for replacing the BMS16D. I have a TP PACK PDF file to build your own top balancing BMS with CellLogger8S. It would be much more fun to build one than to buy one..

    It was found at www.tppacks.com
     
    #83 lopezjm2001, Jun 16, 2011
  4. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    I have found a close replacement for the Enginer Lifepo4 24volt battery pack which comes with a BMS and charger. These cells have a continuous discharge current of 10C which is pretty good. The cells appear to be similar to A123 brand used by Hymotion. They informed me by email that they can now use the CDP-1350 mAh 18650 Cell OR A123 1000 mAh 18650 Cell.

    You would need to upgrade the existing 30 amp BMS to 100 amps BMS. The BMS limits the discharge current to 100amps maximum.

    See link:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/24V-40AH-LiFePO4-Pack-BMS-6A-Charger-E-bike-/260813184233?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item3cb9ad5ce9


    The CODD Power website is:

    LiFePO4,LiFePO4 Pack,BMS System,A123,Codd Power Energy Technology Co., Ltd.
     
    #84 lopezjm2001, Jul 12, 2011
  5. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    These are poor replacements. They are the cheap Chinese lifepo4 batteries for electric bikes. They're only are only 1C discharge continuous with 2C burst. Each battery pack is only .5kw. You'd need 8 of those to equate to 4kw. Just because it has Anderson plugs doesn't mean it'll work with Enginer.
    You're better off custom building your own battery pack out of Headway 40160s They have true 10C discharge rate and 5C charging rate. Not that you'll need it. Enginer 4kw kit barely break 1C discharge. With 5C charging rate, you can use 8kw fast level 2 charger and charge it up in about 30 minutes or 20kw ultra fast level 3 charger and be done in 10 minutes.
    I think the RFE packs are still the best replacement for the kit. There are many people able to charge actual 4.5KW into the 4KW packs.
     
    #85 cproaudio, Jul 12, 2011
  6. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    Overall I still think the Enginer kit is cheap Chinese rubbish. If only the public had access to the Enginer User forum to see what I am talking about. RFE have not been around long enough to get a reputation for reliability like other brands. I definitely would not rate them in the same class as the A123 batteries.
     
    #86 lopezjm2001, Jul 12, 2011
  7. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Majority of LiFePo4 cells don't have high discharge rate. They're mostly rated at 1-2C. In electric car industry with high capacity pack, 1C-2C is enough. A123 LiFePo4 cells are unique because of its high discharge rate. It opens up more application such as smaller capacity but still retain the same discharge rate needed. This is why DeWalt uses A123 LiFePo4 for their 18V power tools. The DeWalt 18V battery is good for 30 amp continuous discharge. Another use for DeWalt packs is electric bikes. When I was building my electric bike, I contemplated using Dewalt packs over Headway packs. In the end I use headway packs because 48 headway cells is alot easier to manage than 480 cells. I didn't use the DeWalt BMS because I need to pull 50-100 amps.
    RFE batteries are the same as any other cheap LiFePo4. They'll break if you mismanage them. The Enginer BMS16D mismanage them. There are many Enginer owners with alternative BMSes with no battery problems.
    While I agree that Enginer is cheap Chinese junk but I also didn't pay alot for it. There's a reason why Enginer out sold PIS kits 6 to 1, cost and limited application. If you're a Gen III owner like me, Enginer is the only choice.
    With the amount of money you've sent on your kit, MiniBMS, BMS+, canview, and solar, you could have gotten a PIS kit or a PICC kit. You would have gotten 200mpg instead of 100mpg.
     
    #87 cproaudio, Jul 12, 2011
  8. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    You forgot to mention Hymotion. Enginer is not the only choice for you. You seem to think that everybody outside the USA has the same availability to PHEV kits.
     
    #88 lopezjm2001, Jul 12, 2011
  9. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Hymotion doesn't make a kit for Gen III. They have no plans to make Gen III kit. I've asked them at the green drive expo in SF.
     
    #89 cproaudio, Jul 12, 2011
  10. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    As far as I am aware there is no Hymotion installer in Australia. Nilco2 is probably the only installer in Australia of PHEV kits. I am sure that Hymotion would come out to Australia at a nice price. So Hymotion is also not a real alternative in Australia. Maybe next year the Nissan Leaf will become available in Australia.
     
    #90 lopezjm2001, Jul 12, 2011
  11. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    For the cost of Hymotion, I'd rather spend the money on either PIS or PICC kit. Both kits go 70mph on electric and both kits can regen into the PHEV battery pack. Plugin-Supply also sell kits to self installers.
     
    #91 cproaudio, Jul 12, 2011
  12. 2007-Prius-hybrid

    2007-Prius-hybrid New Member

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    This is why I dumped my enginer kit as soon as problems arose. You get what you pay for..
     
    #92 2007-Prius-hybrid, Jul 13, 2011
  13. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I agree that there have been ongoing issues.
    And yet I have other customers who stuck with it and are getting 107 mpg I'm not saying it was a smooth road to get through the problems but the guy is very happy now. In fact in my post I say flat out "...it has taken time, patience, and perseverance to get to this point"
     
    #93 ericbecky, Jul 13, 2011
  14. pwp1943

    pwp1943 PHEV Afficionado

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    Eric –

    I couldn’t agree with you more. The Enginer kit is for folks who like to experiment. I must admit I am one of those. Plug and play is not yet a fact with them. However, they are very responsive to problems and have supplied me with new parts (DC/DC converter and charger) as soon as I told them of a problem. I hope plan B never needs to be implemented.

    I’ve had my 4KW kit for a bit longer than a year. I am now at the point where I think I understand the Enginer system and feel comfortable with it. I hope that the company can work out reliability issues and make a truly plug and play unit that can be used by anyone. I think the problem we are looking at is the harsh environment of the automobile and how difficult it is to make units that works there. This points out the fact that the major car companies understand that environment and can make electronics and mechanical systems that operate quite well (no matter how much we whine and complain).

    Paul
     
    #94 pwp1943, Jul 13, 2011
  15. Simtronic

    Simtronic Active Member

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    I have to say Enginer have been very responsive and have been learning from their shortcomings, their product just keeps getting better and is virtually plug and play now. Looks like the last weak link for me (the balancer) has been upgraded I am getting a free of charge upgrade as I had expressed concerns over voltages of the cells in my RFE packs. Let us not forget they represent the best value for money (at least in my part of the world) in a pioneering niche market. If my system lasts as it should I will re-coupe my outlay mind you I am in the UK where gas is almost $9 a gallon!
     
    #95 Simtronic, Jul 14, 2011
  16. pbui

    pbui Member

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    yep, there would be a lot less whining at $9/gal; though just imagine what kind of advancement is possible at that price tag.
     
    #96 pbui, Jul 14, 2011
  17. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    So far I just got about six months out of my 4kwh Enginer RFE kit with on and off usage due to faulty components being replaced under warranty. I only hope that I can get two years usage out of my kit which is how long the warranty is for. At the moment my second DC converter has stopped working and I have sent it off for a repair under warranty. Will Jack honor the two year warranty? The Enginer warranty service has always been good but for how long?
     
    #97 lopezjm2001, Jul 15, 2011
  18. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    With the introduction of the RFE packs and BMS16D, the Enginer kit was suppose to be plug and play. It was, until faulty BMS that snowballed into faulty batteries. The converter isn't robust enough to handle the automotive environment. The converter is like a giant amplifier. It will get HOT. I believe that Enginer should spend their money on designing a converter that can handle the weather. If they need a cap and have a choice of spending $1 for a cap that's rated to operate up to 75C and $3 for a cap that's rated to operate up to 150C, spend the money and get the higher temp rating.
    So far I'm happy with my kit. My battery is balanced enough to accept 4+kw. It's capable of 20+miles in EV. The converter shuts down when it gets too hot. I'd rather have it shut down then blow up. My BMS16D is faulty but I'm using MiniBMS and it's keeping the battery pack balanced and healthy. I still use the BMS16D for information display. I hope to have it replaced when 4.0 comes out. I have no problems with my charger except when the kit gets hot, the charger cycles between green light and red light. It still charges the kit but takes longer time. Overall, the kit delivers 90+mpg since Feb 26th. I'm at 1230miles on my current tank. I'm due for filling the gas by weeks end.
     
    #98 cproaudio, Jul 15, 2011
  19. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    You may also find that the dodgy BMS16D will snowball into faulty DC converters.

    It is definitly a kit for DIY people with a technical background. Otherwise you would be killing yourself with warranty work if you were an Official Enginer Dealer and Installer.
     
    #99 lopezjm2001, Jul 15, 2011
  20. Floyd2

    Floyd2 progressio per sententia

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    True, lopezjm2001 helped me get my pack back in balance. I sent my BMS off for an upgrade but I still use all the original components. Last tank was 1254 miles averaging 104 mpg. I mostly drive short distances (<= 30 miles) at slow inner city speeds.

    Glad I'm not an official installer though. ;)
     
    #100 Floyd2, Jul 17, 2011
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