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Go the Extra Mile: With SUV sales tanking, Detroit

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Rancid13, Nov 16, 2005.

  1. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    The score is done by Phillip Glass so I wouldn't call it catchy but it is dramatic. Actually as a point of trivia, if you ever watch The Truman Show, the song that they play when he finally begins to realize that there's something not quite right about his world is from the second movie, Powaqqatsi. That movie's score is more vibrant and catchy but I can't imagine Phillip Glass ever making the Billboard hit list.

    http://www.koyaanisqatsi.org
     
  2. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Or how about us folks who are allowed to claim mileage for work-related travel? I'm allowed to bill out 35 cents a km and you'd be surprised how much of my slightly-over 25,000km has been work-related: about $5,250 worth.

    Most folks who are allowed to bill out for mileage rarely make money on it, unless they drive an economical car.
     
  3. skruse

    skruse Senior Member

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    Koyaanisqatsi - "life out of balance". Excellent movie, music by Philip Glass (no dialog). The movie really captures your attention, midway through your heart is pounding and specific aspects of our "modern" life become blazingly apparent. There is a sequel.

    Koyaanisqatsi describes our present situation very well.
     
  4. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    wow i used to think the same way but considering median life of new cars being 17 years, we cant afford "better than nothing" improvement.

    we still have to deal with all those H2's that will start being retired in 2020!!
     
  5. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    That's assuming that fuel is still relatively cheap in 15 years. I wouldn't depend on it.
     
  6. Trojan

    Trojan New Member

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    Definitely both.
     
  7. skruse

    skruse Senior Member

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    The fuels that will be "cheaper" in 15 years (2020 CE) will be sustainable renewables - wind, hydro, sun and geothermal. Fossil fuels (petroleum, hydrogen, natural gas) will decrease in quantity, driving the price up. Increasing demand (human population) will further complicate use of finite energy sources.

    Okay, hydrogen is sustainable and renewable when derived from water. The problem is oil companies plan to produce hydrogen from petroleum.
     
  8. Jack 06

    Jack 06 New Member

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    Another big thumb up for koyaanisqatsi. One of a kind.
     
  9. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Actually, the oil companies already produce a lot of hydrogen from fossil fuels (mainly NG through a process called steam reforming). In fact, a large percentage of the global hydrogen output is used in refineries. I believe that it's used to bump up octane ratings in gasoline. The other large consumer of hydrogen is, of course, the fertilizer industry.

    However, as you mentioned as the price of these increasingly scarce resources goes up and the cost of renewable hydrogen drops hydrogen will become "greener". Actually, you could probably create a decent amount of hydrogen by steam reforming biogas (usually methane derived from cow poo).

    The real beauty of hydrogen is that it can be derived from so many sources. We've just got to find a way to make it cheap and store it easily. There are a lot of folks working on those issues.
     
  10. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Cracking is a scary but exciting process. I think a lot of folks have no clue how important petrochemicals are in our everyday life. The petrochemicals are a critical source of alkanes, cycloalkanes, aromatics, polycyclics, and alkenes. What troubles me is how much we piss away for inefficient transportation.

    Consider NG: primarily it’s methane, ethane, propane, and higher alkanes. The typical wellhead ratio is 12:2:1, and those valuable higher alkanes are usually less than 2-3%.

    Consider coal. Many already know it can be used a source of “synthetic†gas and other alkanes. However, you need hydrogenation to convert coal, and where does that hydrogen currently come from? Petroleum. A catch-22 if you will.

    In petrochemical processing, both catalytic cracking – pyrolysis - and catalytic reforming are used to derive many useful compounds. You can also derive highly branched alkanes from alkanes and alkenes by alkylation.

    Pyrolysis of petroleum is an important source of ethylene (C2H4), alkanes and alkenes, and hydrogen. Steam reforming -or steam cracking- is an important source for ethylene, propylene, butadiene, isoprene, and cyclopentadiene.

    A good source of uniform smaller hydrocarbons is with hydrocracking: hydrogen at high pressure and moderate temperature. Most of the hydrogen produced at a refinery is utilized in the process. Halogen gases, such as chlorine, are also useful, as is the dehydrohalogenation of alkyl halides.

    Ammonia (NH3) is an important fertilizer and is also derived from petroleum. Many plastics such as polyethylene are derived from ethylene and oxygen.

    A lot of folks also don’t understand “hydrogen†which – last time I checked – had 3 isotopes: 1H (Protium, the most common), 2H (Deuterium, commonly produced commercially as deuterium oxide), and 3H (Tritium, useful to “boost†nuclear weapons).

    So well many are worried about running out of gas for their giant SUV, I worry about running out of fertilizer and widespread starvation. I also worry about no longer having any plastics. So it’s really dumb to use up most of our petrochemicals for personal transportation.
     
  11. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    The movie is set to the music of Phillip Glass...

    It's a lot of time lapsed and slow motion photography... i sorta thought it was like watching a screensaver set to music, but I understand the message. :lol: