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LED lowbeam observations

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by autom3tro, Jun 5, 2011.

  1. autom3tro

    autom3tro lumenphilia

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    hey guys, this is for those who ever wondered about individual output pictures. I spent time recently making observations on Prii with LED lowbeams, hope this excites you :D

    First-both headlights on wall:
    [​IMG]

    Second-single headlamp on wall: (i used passenger side)
    [​IMG]

    Third-upper parabolic reflector (flood light, foreground)
    [​IMG]
    **observation, it appears that the reflector has a shielding to reflect residual forward light (often lost) back onto the reflector:
    [​IMG]

    Fourth- Projectors (combined) without top parabolic reflector:
    [​IMG]

    Fifth-Only outer/smaller projector: (diffused beam/mid-distance)
    [​IMG]

    Sixth-Only inner/larger projector: (focused beam/distance)
    [​IMG]
    The dark downward spike on the left side of the output is my girlfriends hair...

    **observation, apparently this also sources the "squirrel finders," though both of the projector lenses have a texture on the inside/flat surface instead of the round outside facing surface. Think of fresnel lenses but instead of having circles, they're vertical lines covering the backside of the projector toward the led unit.

    [​IMG]

    On the Prius i studied, the large projector also showed signs of melting and damage on the large projector as seen here:
    [​IMG]

    possibly all LED-equipped Prii will suffer this?
    many LED lowbeams that were studied all showed the same signs of melting inside of the larger/inside projector (focused beam). A fellow member on a light enthusiast site also discovered that tilting the projector at the right angle on a not-so sunny day can also start making the insides burn.

    The Prius's led lowbeam internals are mostly plastic to save on weight.

    Here is another batch from a member, Upashi, who is also studying the headlamp:

    [​IMG]

    top from left, small/outer diffused projector, large/inner focused projector, and reflector part. bottom, combined beam
     
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  2. Thai

    Thai Prius Neophyte

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    I have no idea what you just said...is there a layman's conclusion to all these tests?? Thanks.

    The internal melting...hmmm, does this mean that ext warranty is a good idea?
     
  3. autom3tro

    autom3tro lumenphilia

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    lol my bad, this is just for those who ever wondered how each of the 3 led sources contribute to the overall beam.

    as for internal melting, look inside the larger projector and check to see if there's any form of burning/melting, 3/3 prius's i've seen showed mild-to-moderate signs of damage.
     
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  4. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    I wonder if this lens could be replaced with a high temp glass lens. Due to the differance between the 2 mediums, the glass less will a little diff in size.
    The queston is, is there a glass sub that could be used!!

    Very nice write up by the way. I was wondering how the 3 lamps interacted with each other.
     
  5. autom3tro

    autom3tro lumenphilia

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    ty :) problem is that the lens isn't what is melting, it's the internal "beam shaper"/cutoff shield. The lens is causing the inside of the projector to melt because it's focusing sunlight into the projector. reverse optics >.<

    ALSO the lens is fused to the projector, so replacing it with another will require extra cutting and work. hopefully Toyota recognizes this and tells Koito to make improvements because this setup is also on Lexus's Rx, Hs, and Ct model hybrids, as well as the Asian market Toyota Sai.
     
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  6. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    Here's a diagram showing the LED headlight pattern and such:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Metalman

    Metalman Member

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    Simple solution: use duct tape to secure a Wal-Mart plastic bag to the headlights for daytime use.
     
  8. autom3tro

    autom3tro lumenphilia

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    woops, forgot to add in, the culprit (the sun) attacks the headlights during early and late days when the angle of the sun is in line with the projector (or relatively in-line)
     
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Which is, depending on the season, the times you want your headlights on to be seen. This is interesting. Toyota has had issues with melting plastic on the Gen 2 brakelights and thus the switch from a black housing to a chrome housing for 2006. I wonder if they'll make changes to the LED headlights for the midlife update.
     
  10. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Thanks you for posting this information!

    So the shield is melting but the bowls seems ok?
     
  11. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Looking at the beams again it's seems like it is difficult to get all the headlights to focus in a clean manner and cover all of the important areas. The width doesn't seems that great nor is the cuttoff clean. At least there is some bleeding at the top of the cuttoff for lighting up street signs or squirrels. :)

    That being said, the shots I've seen on the street seems like they do a good job of lighting the area up. Thanks to Tideland for supplying his pics.
     
  12. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Always park facing north (in the northern hemisphere).

    ;)

    Tom
     
  13. autom3tro

    autom3tro lumenphilia

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    The bowl's are alright, it's just the additional beam shaper mirrors that deflect residual light into usable light, same ones seen on a lexus ls600h:

    [​IMG]

    I took these pics at around a 5-8 foot distance, if you go back further, to around 15-20 feet, all the beams should align relatively nicely (as seen in tideland's street and wall pictures. The LEDs have a more homogeneous light coverage, providing wider view with good distance (if you adjust the beams a tad upward) than the halogens. With the halogens most of the light is directed in center and distance.
     
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  14. 32kcolors

    32kcolors Senior Member

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    If anything within the assembly needs replacing (including burnt-out LEDs), the entire assembly is replaced, to the tune of $800 a pop. Has there ever been a case of "internal melting" leading to premature failure in the Lexus models? If not, I doubt there's anything to worry about.
     
  15. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    There are no heatsinks for the LED?
     
  16. autom3tro

    autom3tro lumenphilia

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    yes, there are heatsinks for the LED's. The melting is due to optics from the sun shining into the projector to melt the internal reflector (beam shaper/cut-off shield not bowl).
     
  17. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    Because of the heat LEDs generate in headlight applications, heatsinks are a must from what I have always understood.
     
  18. autom3tro

    autom3tro lumenphilia

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    F8L, i just noticed, you're on HIDplanet too
     
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  19. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Yup. :)

    Thanks for the explaination too. Could one paint the beam shaper white to reflect insolation? I assume this would only affect "lens color" if viewed from a high angle.

    32kcolors, I don't think this melting would cause light failure. It would change the way the light looks on the road but I doubt the average Lexus driver would notice the difference unless it was pointed out to them. In fact, the loss of the beam shaper might make the lights appear brighter (like a high beam).
     
  20. Thai

    Thai Prius Neophyte

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    Ext. warranty won't cover headlight bulbs...but i wonder about the headlight assembly?? And since apparently LED is kinda tied in with the whole assembly, then would ext. warranty pay for damaged internal reflector??