Germany decides to abandon nuclear power by 2022

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by wjtracy, May 31, 2011.

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  1. Rstaton

    Rstaton New Member

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    This whole issue will soon go moot as solar power rapidly becomes affordable. And you won't have to rely on a utility to provide it for you. Solar, by its nature, is already distributed. People could charge up their own cars with their own solar panels.
     
    #21 Rstaton, Jun 2, 2011
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    You touched another implication. With the nuclear argument weaker, the electrification argument will shift to (among other arguments) solar as a bigger slice of the zero-carbon future. Since smaller is better for me, I am receptive to your power decentralization proposal. I know the solar advocates say there is already another paradigm shift, that solar is now cheaper than fossil fuels. Hope you are right about the "soon" prediction.
     
    #22 wjtracy, Jun 2, 2011
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    They may leave some plants open, but the shut down of nuclear in Germany was in the works for a decade, and they will shut down most.

    Caught in the Climate Conundrum: Germany Plans Boom in Coal-Fired Power Plants -- Despite High Emissions - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
    The new coal plants have a useful life of at least 25 years. Germany has heavily invested in solar but only got 2% of its power from it last year. I don't think solar will have much impact on replacing 23% of germany's electricity.
     
    #23 austingreen, Jun 2, 2011
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    AustinG- Excellent background article...but a real head-scratcher as far as how they will reduce CO2 by 40% now. Implication is similar approach for USA? You say maybe not - we have nat gas option. I do like the way the Germans squeeze all the heat recovery out of the coal via CoGen approach. So we now have France as the nuke expert and Germany as the clean coal expert. Not such a bad EU "Jack Sprat" energy strategy perhaps.
     
    #24 wjtracy, Jun 2, 2011
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Germany is a big importer of Russian natural gas, politically they do not want to increase this dependence. At current plant and fuel prices most US utilities will choose gas over coal. The US can definitely learn from what the German's do, both good and bad. France seems to have the newest and safest nuclear plants but there are also problems adopting frances nuclear policy.

    As for the 40% goal, IMHO it is not realistic. They have closed 7 of the 17 nukes, and although the rest won't close until after the 2020 date this puts too much strain on an already optimistic projection.

    German energy: Nuclear? Nein, danke | The Economist
     
    #25 austingreen, Jun 2, 2011
  6. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    We shall see. I predict that they will discover that they cannot, because the available alternatives are inadequate and people will choose not to freeze in the dark.
     
    #26 richard schumacher, Jun 10, 2011
  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    From AltEnergyStocks.com


     
    #27 wjtracy, Jun 24, 2011
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  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Germany decides to abandon nuclear power by 2022
    *cough*

    Yeah....right.
    Well they SAID they're going to do it...now let's see.

    Seems to me that my beloved government made the same pledge about our 'little' debt problem.

    Like I said......we'll see.
     
    #28 ETC(SS), Jun 25, 2011
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Just spend 2 weeks in Germany on business.
    Here are some energy attitudes from my colleagues/cabbies-

    Re: NUKES - They feel if anyone can safely run a nuke plant, it is Germany. Ironically, they feel Germany's boycott of nukes may result in importing more nuke power from France, with France building new plants near Germany (counter-productive result).

    Re: SOLAR PV & Wind- I was in an area that manufactures silicon/solar industry. I was told the solar PV movement in Germany (now slowed down) was not due so much to green attitudes rather it was large subsidies, which meant you made a profit if you installed PV. On the order of Euro 35 cents per kW (not sure what that really means). Of course the subsidies have been reduced for a little while now. EV not big trend there. Offshore wind has transmission issue because users are in central/south Germany, whereas wind is in north Germany. Did not see any on-shore wind farms in my trip.

    Re: CARS - Speed limits...one political issue that was emotional for some was speed limits, which is a recurring proposal. I was told Germans love their cars and they like to drive, and many like to drive fast with no speed limits on the big highways -consistent with pro-car society, some feel. But the opposing view was Americans like to drive and are pro-car and USA tolerates speed limits on highways.

    Re: Diesel - was cheaper at the pump about $E1.53 per liter but due to tier use taxes, (car costs?) they said that diesel is not really cheaper than gasoline cars unless you drive 15000+ miles per year. Also higher diesel taxes are proposed. Did not see many Prii (a few) but lots of Ford focus and the like.

    Re: Many acres pretty Yellow Flowers in the farmland. What could it be? Told my wife: you know what, my guess it is rapeseed for biodiesel, sort of EU version of corn. Checking Wiki, yes I am correct. Also seems to spread somewhat as a weed.

    Re: Economy - good because people fear the banks will go belly up with their money. So "spend it now" is the attitude. .

    >>Overall the thing you notice is less apparent divisiveness than we have in USA.
    Even if people do not agree with energy policies, they seem to be willing to give the gov't policies a chance to see how they fail (or work).
     
    #29 wjtracy, May 1, 2012
  10. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    As an outsider that's the one thing that I have noticed from this forum - how divisive American politics is. I have right wing friends and left wing friends and you try and discuss and balance things. I actually like the UKs present coalition Government because of the balance the two conflicting parties give. You can be right wing and drive an economical car, or left wing and be pro-life.

    Another unusual comment I often see on this forum is people asking if they should get a Prius as their friends and peers would mock and call them 'gay'. I find this completely bizarre, yet there are many threads asking this question. Personally, who cares what people think, who cares what you drive and who actually gives a hoot if you're gay? Nobody judges me because I drive a Prius and I couldn't care less if they did. ;)
     
    #30 GrumpyCabbie, May 1, 2012
  11. GSW

    GSW PRIUS POWER

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    Well said GC! Believe it or not many American's feel the same way.
     
    #31 GSW, May 1, 2012
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    It is not worth another war with france to stop them from making nukes. It is best to get along, and since the risk is there anyway use the power at night.

    please don't take the autobahn away. I don't think america is better off with speed traps and police officers mainly there to collect ticket money. It would be ashame to export this to germany. Speed limits where they are needed for safety. 55 really didn't decrease oil use.

    I asked a danish friend here about that and he said that many feel that they are defeated people. They have no power against their government policies so they go along. Some agree, some disagree, but those that disagree won't speak up strongly.
     
    #32 austingreen, May 1, 2012
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