The Math Behind the Hybrid Hype

Some good points made on both sides in the /. discussion -- thank you for the pointer.

That said, I'll repeat something that a lot of PriusChat posters have said over the last 2 years:

• It's very difficult to determine (at least for a Prius, which as no "non-hybrid" model) what the price increase is for a hybrid
• That said, you probably can't justify a Prius purchase on gas savings
• Most Prius buyers (on PriusChat, at least) didn't get it for soley for gas savings (and I suspect, for most, that it was at most 2nd on the list of reasons)

 

I am curious, NuShrike, how you consider the study to be flawed?

 

Not a bad article but definitely some incorrect information.

The powertrain warranty is NOT 8/100k

Battery life is estimated at 8-10 yrs according to the author. This is based on a link to footnote #40. They base this on the battery life warranty (DUH) Overall nothing really new.

 

"Is a Hybrid worth it"

I don't know about anybody else, but I am tired of these stupid articles.
Is any car "worth it"?
We buy a car because it is "worth it" to us. We need it...we can afford it...
so, 'is a hybrid worth it' guy, go write about some other trendy topic to get yourself published!!!

Is a Lamborghini worth it?

Is a fully loaded Highlander Hybrid @ $40,000 worth it?

Clearly, they are worth it to the people who bought them or any other car. Let's move on.

OK, I'm done. :blink:

 

You beat me to it - I was just logging in to post this same article.

It was an interesting article and makes some good points. It's unfortunate that in all the fancy math calculations, the author didn't bother to include brake replacement estimates or the tax credits.

And I always hate the comparisons. The Corolla is a decent car, but it's an economy car - the prius (at it's price range) is almost a luxury car. And all the cool gadgets and stuff you get in the prius (nav, bluetooth..etc) and cool storage are not available in the corolla.

I was shocked at the conclusion. After all that info, how does a hybrid not make sense? It certainly doesn' t make sense just to save gas, but if you need a new car, it seems to make perfect sense. And it holds 70% of it's value!! If you actually use it during that period of time, it's more like an investment!

Articles like this make me wonder if the author has ever even driven a hybrid, especially the prius.

 

It's a flawed analysis because it assumes that a dollar spent toward oil weighs exactly the same as a dollar spent toward the car initially.

There is an inherent value judgment there. Do you want that dollar to support a new technology that is paving the way for future vehicles, or do you want that dollar to support the albatross that is oil dependency?

If your answer is that it doesn't matter because it's $1 either way out of your pocket, then the Prius isn't for you.

If your answer is that you'd rather companies like Toyota who are making great progress in these new technologies have your dollar than the establishment of the oil industry, then consider the Prius.

It makes perfect sense then.

The bottom line for us is this : SAVE FOR ONE OTHER VEHICLE, THE PRIUS BURNS THE LEAST FUEL, AND CONTRIBUTES MINIMALLY TO OIL DEPENDENCE PER MILE THAN ANY OTHER VEHICLE. Period.

That means a lot, even if I have to pay more for it than another car initially. I welcome it! Toyota deserves the money much more than the oil companies.

All of this baloney to debunk hybrids is stupid because it's essentially setting up a straw man to destroy it. There is no conspiracy to convince people that Hybrids will save you tons of money... it's all about where you send that money.

 

Hears alittle quick math. Saving energy saves a soldiers life. Period.

 

Two REALLY good points!!!!

 

The article was well written but that does not make it right. Its TOTALLY FLAWED.

Most importantly it shows that hyrids hold thier value better then non hybrids, a $2000 or so difference at trade in time yet it DOES NOT INCLUDE this in its calculations. Its annoying that he is talking pure economics then does not include a $2000 or so figure in the hyrids favor. Then not including anything for the deduction??? Either factor would tilt it in the hybrids favor. So it has nice graphs and is well written, but WRONG.

I would love to see a properly written 'post mortem' on the older civic hybrid 3 years ownership with real trade in data comparing the hybrid civic and non hybrid. Something with true total cost of ownership, gas maintenence, resale value, interest etc, tax deduction etc.

 

Interesting how the "externalities" are always ignored. Hybrids are PZEVs with minimal emissions and no smog checks. In California the NimH batteries are guaranteed for 150k mi. Driving a Prius I model "least cost, end use" or long-term thinking. I look forward to Prius III that I can plug-in and bypass fuel stations - deriving power from photovoltaic panels at home. I more than double my savings by owning a Prius through avoided costs.

 

I agree 100%. I have an 05 Prius that I purchased in October. I am lucky in that I didn't NEED the car as I already have a Dodge Caravan. I WANTED the car mostly to make a statement to the big oil companies that made a 75% profit. (sure wish I could do that on my savings account). The great gas mileage (currently 52.2 overall), the tax deduction, the great styling, and the really cool technology were also considerations. I am not really a greene so the environmental issues were not that big a deal to me. I wish we could drill in the Gulf, and further reduce our dependance on foreign oil.

I do not understand the people that make it their life mission to trash the hybrids. The only one I consider doing what hybrids are supposed to do is the Prius. EPA 51/60/55. While I am on the mileage kick, When people ask if I REALLY get 60 MPG, and I say no, I am getting between 52 and 54 overall, they tend to get a sly smirk on their face, as though they are thinking, " I knew it was just hype. Not near what is advertised". I want to say I am getting 52-54 MPG , what are you getting. But, I really don't care what they thinlk. I didn't buy the Prius for them I bought it for ME.

End of Rant

 

Why not simply state that yes, you get 60mpg in city driving? I'm sure you've had some trips that have gotten you that, no? Then you could just state that overall, you are getting 54mpg.

 

My hubby and I bought our Prius in April 05 and
already have 16k + on it(eek!) but I absolutely
love it.
I torques me off when the media disses the hybrid.
The gas mileage attracted us to it but the extras sold us.
Where can you get the GPS nav, 6 CD changer etcetera
etcetera on any car for less than $30K?

Nowhere.
That's why I bought my Prius. The gas savings are gravy.

 

Good idea. I will do that fromn now on, and yes I have had several trips that I got in excess of 60.