Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

Is the "think" being produced in Norway yet?
I understand Renault and BetterPlace have pilot operations testing in Denmark and Israel right now.
BMW makes the mini-E right?
The video someone posted a couple of days ago showed a cool new Jaguar proto-type PHEV (with twin tubines, way cool).
Most of the foreign super-sports cars are sticking electric engines in for better torque and performance.
Also take a look at the size and weight of the average European car compared to US.

The biggest difference is here the government subsidies oil prices down to ridiculously low levels and in Europe they don't so alternative energies and clean diesels are more market competitive. Let the market naturally put gas prices here at $8-10 a gallon and see how quickly we can get drivers out of 20 mpg hogs and into Prii, volts, and leafs (anyone know if the proper plural for the car is "Leaves"). We wouldn't need any tax breaks then.

 

I asked Nissan about this because I wanted to know what to expect charging at 100% vs 80% and how that would affect my battery 10 years out. They said it would affect the battery a percent or two over 10 years... That's a reduction from 100 miles for a pack charge today to 98 miles a pack charge in 10 years (not accounting for natural reduction in range).

Needless to say, I charge at 100%.

 

I'll bet you it is a lot more than one or two percent. Annually is more believable. Do you empty the battery every day ? It just seems reasonable to me to give the battery a little break on the days the maximum range is not required.

 

I think it depends on which Country in Europe. Imagine European Countries as US States. At the moment only a handful of States offer incentives for EV's or EV's are only sold in certain States.

The same applies here in Europe. Some Countries are adopting the EV and actively encouraging them - the UK for one. But some Countries don't seem too bothered and have no incentives. If you look at the markets the Nissan Leaf is presently being sold in Europe will give you a good idea of the supporters = Ireland, UK, Portugal and Holland. [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf[/ame]

You'll notice that Countries with strong diesel car manufacturers - France, Germany & Spain don't have much EV support!?!

 

I drive about 50-60 miles per day. Nissan has already stated to expect a reduction of 10-20% of the usable range after 10 years and charging to 80% might decrease that by a percent or two.

BTW, the battery already gets a break. While the customer-usable capacity is 24 kWh, the Nissan dealership battery test indicates that it's almost 28 kWh. What this means is that we never "touch" the upper or lower 7% of the state-of-charge. So in actuality, when I charge to 100% it is actually only charging to 93% of the total battery size, but the lowest I can take it is down to 7% of the actual capacity, or 0% of the "customer-usable" portion.

 

Good news everybody, I didn't have to burn gas after all! I got permission to plug in at the County Courthouse. 95 miles round trip, more than 66 miles on EV, burned less than 7 tenths of a gallon of gas burned (41.3 mpg in CS).

Now if I can just get them to install a level 2 charger we'll be in business.

I am really excited about this, it is the main stop I go to the most often that made me too nervous to get a Leaf. If this keeps up I can definitely see going to a full BEV when my Volt lease is up.

GO EV!!!

 

"Think" is not sold here in Portugal, and I guess in many other contries either.
BMW, Volvo, etc. do show progress, but when it takes to produce and deliver, not a single one.
Even the "first diesel hybrid" by Peugeot is still to be seen. Nothing yet!

Clean diesels do seem more "competitive" to a common driver, but are proving not reliable, and with running problems.

Bottom line, Europe "environmental" image does not go along with the truth of its car market/sales/production.

 

Awesome, this is what I think eventually is going to happen. Some businesses will offer free charge for doing business with them, say for example while you eat in their restaurant in exchange for electricity that be worth less than a dollar.

 

I'm sorry, that should read I didn't have to buy gas, I clearly burned some.

 

Price determines market size, and the Volt is a small market car.

GM still lacks a big market hybrid. That was not what was supposed to happen when the taxpayers bailed out GM.

 

My Leaf is leased and yet I charge only 80% on weekdays so that I get full regen capability when I leave home. I've to get down the hill everday ...

 

I personally would like to hear more about your experiences with the Leaf. I know this a Volt thread, but I would like to read more Leaf - Volt discussion. What were your experiences with cold weather? How did it handle the snow? What have been your experiences with charging? Have you had any trip where you were anxious about getting home?

If these are discussed o a Leaf thread, kindly direct me there.

 

DaveinOlyWA has a Leaf thread and blog:

Nissan Leaf Blog

 

There is a Nissan sub forum right here on PriusChat. It's quiet because bashing GM is more fun.

mynissanleaf.com is probably the best source.

 

Bashing GM? ermmm...


"I wouldn't get caught in one! Geekmobile..."

Remember? I don't forget!

 

I think the volt will be a success. It is to big to fail now. I will say I find it amusing how all the big car magazines a few months ago had volt 130 mpg's so on and so forth and when it comes out those numbers where a bit jaded.

 

I test-drove the Volt last Saturday and was very impressed by the available power and the handling. However the rear seat will be comfortable only for children and short people due to the minimal legroom.

My dad (who had previously owned four Prius) intends to buy a Volt as he likes the promised battery range vs. the Prius plug-in. As the Volt is not yet available for sale in Hawaii, his plan is to buy from a CA dealer and have the car shipped via ocean freighter.

Although the $40K base price is high, the $7.5K federal income tax credit makes the net price more reasonable for early adopters. I understand that GM is working hard to lower the cost and price for the next generation, which will be needed if the car is to expand its market penetration beyond the small early adopter group.

 

Majority of the electricity in Hawaii is generated from Diesel. Is your dad planning to get solar panels? Maybe he has them already.

 

Interesting, but they were not terribly far from turtle mode on that Leaf.

I used the numbers posted by Consumer Reports and with gas prices we had a month back the break-even of Volt & Prius was 56 miles. This is within that ballpark; once you hit around 70 with the numbers here the Prius is cheaper even than the Volt and clearly cheaper per mile thereafter.

$350 means nothing to me. How much money down to bring that payment to $350/month? Now, I know it was last year, but I'm leasing a Prius right now at $231/mont--and that's with 18k/year. It was about $170/month otherwise (12k/year) with $1750 out of pocket including first payment (it was a Prius II, but the fully-equipped Prius has way more options than a Volt anyway). You want to compare payments with all these cars the Prius is going to be similar to the Leaf and both will easily best the Volt. According to the thread posted earlier the Prius freaking manhandles the Volt. $8500 down and $322/month?!

 

No, he does not have PV panels on his home yet. He had built a solar water heater system (from scratch) a few decades ago before that became a popular thing to do.

I believe that the kWh price in Honolulu is ~$0.30 (which is 3x the rates in southern AZ) so you would think that the payback on a PV system could be reached within several years. However my dad is quite old and his personal time horizon doesn't stretch that far - if he doesn't receive immediate gratification from a purchase, forget it.