Newbie Signing Papers Tomorrow- Help?!

From all accounts, Prius supply is pretty tight due to the disaster and disruption of the supply chain and production, coupled w/high gas prices (esp. where you are).

You can see statements regarding production at News | TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION GLOBAL WEBSITE and read about the effects at http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...unami-effect-automakers-suppliers-thread.html and http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/91260-disaster-effect-prius-availability.html. If you come across any posts by tpfun, ignore them. He's the resident [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll"]Troll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] and trying to instill Fear, uncertainty and doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia amongst newbies and potential buyers.

That is very odd that someone would try in a car with only 169 miles. Weird.

10 year/100K warranty? On what? The basic warranty is 3 years/36K but there is the 10 year/150K mile HV battery warranty and 15 year/150K mile emissions warranty and on some hybrid components. Ask to see the warranty booklet, if you want all the details.

Since you are asking about mileage, please read Car and Driver: The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates and Your Mileage Will Still Vary. Then, compare their test procedures to your driving

Hints: They don't drive on a real road, they don't measure actual fuel consumption, their highest average speed for any of their test cycles is a mere 48.4 mph and their cold (engine) start tests are 31.2 minutes long.

Here are results on a totally different set of tests: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...view/index.htm.

Supposedly, the EPA numbers are the only numbers manufacturers can legally advertise (I've seen VW seemingly break the rules in on online ad a year or so ago).

Since you live in SF and are getting well below EPA mileage on your RAV4 (see Side-by-Side Comparison), I wouldn't expect to get EPA numbers on the Prius. I don't know where you are in SF but parts of it, as you know have lots of hills and there's plenty of stop/go and bad traffic, unless you take the streets w/timed lights. You might get numbers closer to CR's, esp. if you have short drives.

From my comparison of EPA numbers of my other and previous cars vs. my 2nd gen Prius, without knowing anything about your drives, esp. trip length and how much stop/go there is, I'd estimate you will probably get a somewhere between 2x and 2.5x what you get on your RAV4.

Please see this other CR results at Best & worst cars review, fuel-efficient vehicles and Best & worst cars review, best city/highway mpg, for perspective. The oldest results that CR has on file for a RAV4 (for comparison) is a 2001 AWD w/automatic. They got 16 city/27 highway, 22 mpg overall and 26 mpg on a 150-mile trip.

 

Spot on post by cwerdna above.

As for low mile trade-ins, it happens more often then you think. Sometimes it is just not the car for them. Sometimes the state has a 3day grace period on contracts and you can wiggle out of the deal even after signing for any reason.

You are in CA right? Then you have a 150K mile warranty because you are in a CARB state.

As stated above, the 48/51 is only an estimate. YMMV literally. The worst most unhappy people I have seen around here (minus a couple trolls who I doubt have even sat in a Prius) is mid to low 30's. That is with a mile or two trips, heater on full blast, jack rabbit driving, and generally running the least efficiently all the time. It is what you would expect from a "normal" similarly sized car. That's because when you do that, it is a normal car in that the engine runs all the time. If you want maximum heat and cook eggs in your cabin, then the engine has to run to make heat, basically the definition of inefficiency. If you drive less distance than the warmup cycle of the engine, it will be on your whole trip, defeating the purpose.

The benefit is when you drive a little further. Then you will get low 40's. If you drive with reasonable heat settings and time your lights, high 40's probably maybe 50's. If you drive like a true hypermiller, then 60's and up are possible.

If you sit idle in stop and go traffic, the Prius is king. When you stop the engine stops. How's that for saving gas?!

I think it is hard to compare city mpg of a previous car to city mpg of a prius. Highway vs. highway, I would agree with cwerdna. If you get 80% EPA on the highway with Car X, your driving style and terrain will probably net 80% EPA on the highway with Car Y. The problem is city driving where the engine's on-time and therefore mpg calculations are thrown off. Sit in traffic for an hour with Car X and your 20mpg goes to 15mpg. Sit in traffic for an hour with a Prius, and your 50mpg goes to like 48mpg or 49mpg depending on electrical draw.

This is a sellers (aka dealerships) market. Demand is high, gas prices are high, supply is low. Triple wammy. Your choice to roll the die and gamble if gas prices are going up or down. I did so last year, and won big. My car has appreciated in value over 150% even with 20k+ extra miles on it.

 

(I used to live in the Bay Area and at one point, went to SF a fair amount.)

Regarding timing lights, apparently, many streets of SF don't have timed lights. There are 6 that are known to be timed and helpful (see San Francisco's 49 Mile Scenic Drive ... - Google Books). I can attest to most of those as I've been amazed by how little I've had to wait on those timed streets or how the light turns green as a approach an intersection, one after another.

For the rest of SF.... ugh, traffic can suck. I can speak w/authority about 19th Ave.

 

if your in san francisco like me....i just helped a friend of mine buy a prius yesterday and she just picked it up today...as for supply you will hear all sorts of stories from dealerships as i have visited almost every dealership within 50 miles of san francisco. From my research san francisco toyota has the most inventory about 35 prius II's on their lots with about 80 prii total...putnam in burlingame has 4 prius II's but all with leather options added....city toyota in daly city has about 12 II's but most have added options from leather to upgraded nav because they dont have any III's with those options...my friend picked up a grey II from them that was just delivered sat...when we got it, it was still wrapped in the white protective wrap...So its true these cars are really flying off the lots...when i was first doing my research i didnt think it was really the case of shortages but after talking with about 8 sales people 2 of which are my close friends they all said no one is discounting the Prius at all. So if you want one in the bay area your pretty much paying msrp+ ttl which came out to about 27K otd for a base model prius II....those in other parts of the country are pretty lucky getting one for anything near 25K otd...

so if u need any other questions about buying in sf area im pretty well versed at this point.

 

FWIW, I bought my 06 Prius new from Toyota Sunnyvale back when there were multi-month wating lists at the end of 05 and MSRP was a decent deal. I bought from Stan Wolowski and from my experience there, I'd have no hesitation in recommending them. I posted about it before at http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii.../61485-acquiring-2010-prius-5.html#post846618.

 

i think it's msrp+ just about everywhere now. maybe ask them to throw in extra bumper to bumper coverage on the trade in? that guy must have taken a serious hit!

 

OP - The used car with under 200 miles is for all practical purposes a new car, just with one big proviso - if you financing rates for used cars are typically higher than with new so just take a look at this. I have never leased so I do not have a clue if this would impact the cost of a lease.

 

low 30's?

hopefully you will never be car salesman

 

I bought my Prius from Toyota Sunnyvale, and their website shows 13 in stock. Regarding pricing, their policy is to always charge less than MSRP. When I took delivery of mine in June 2009, it was the second 2010 they delivered, and despite the demand for the new Gen 3, I got a modest discount from MSRP. The best car buying experience I've had.

 

yeah like i mentioned before the burlingame dealership doesnt have much in terms of choices...and with 169 miles...it more sounds like a dealer demo car than a return but who knows...my friend did pay mrsp which was $24010 but we worked out a special deal on the financing through TFS which saved us a little over $1000 in interest as compared to my bank and to patelco. We also got thrown in the factory alarm and some protection package they already installed on it. If you want you can PM any questions if you want more exact details.

o SF toyota on geary st is the same as the one on van ness...they have secret garage right off filmore which i just toured and they have like a sea of prii in every color....a bunch of prius II's but all at msrp...if you wanted a blue one you could prob go look there and get one at 24010 ( this includes the floor mats ) + destination +TTL....good luck!

 

Hopefully not, it would require too much "massaging" of the truth.

If you drive your car down the block to the store then back home for a total of a couple miles a day, your mpg's will not be stellar. Low to mid 30's is reasonable. The warmup cycle hits the overall mpg's severely. This is probably the absolute lowest you can get a Prius without leaving it READY for a couple weeks outside and not driving it.

 

Don't stress about all the fuel economy talk. Just drive it. If you need another hobby or religion you can always take on "hypermiling" later.

But *do* read through the Owner's Manual right away. It's full of stuff you need to know.

 

By now hopefully you have seen that the car doesn't turn "on", it goes "READY". So leaving it in READY means not turning it off. The engine may be off, but slowly the battery will discharge. When it gets to 40-50% ish the engine automagically turns on and charges it up to 60%-ish. Then when it drains a little, it charges it back up. So if you parked your car in READY for a few weeks it would basically be idling at a low duty cycle which is just gas wasting and lowers mpgs.

Totally agree with Richard. Until you learn the car, drive it like normal. If you try too hard without knowing what you are doing, your mpgs will more than likely drop.

 

There general consensus is to NOT warmup the ICE by sitting idling w/the ICE running (right after power up). You are getting 0 mpg that whole time and needlessly burning up fuel.

Just put your foot on the brake, push power and go, once the ready light is lit. No need to wait for the ICE (internal combustion engine) to startup.

As others have stated, make SURE you push power and all the dash lights are out before you leave the car. 2k1Toaster's explanation is spot on.

 

I averaged around 28mpg for my first 3 or so tanks, but I was really beating on the poor thing to see what it could do (short trips, hard starts/stops, 100mph+ runs, etc). Now I average around 35 and am quite aggressive with it. Hop on the freeway (rare) and I suddenly get around 45-48.

Anyway, sub 30's is feasible.

As for the OP, I would not pay full price for a used car period. Why should **you** pay for a car that has already been "driven off the lot" as the dealers like to say.

Who knows why it has so few miles. It could have had several issues that infuriated the original owner to the point that he brought it back. Or, maybe he just changed his mind. Who knows, but there is a good chance that a gremlin is lurking and you can avoid it by just getting a new car, which is essentially what you are paying anyway.

My 2c.

 

Yep. the guy at Toyota's revamped Prius hybrid gains higher mileage, better interior | detnews.com | The Detroit News tried to beat his test Prius into submission and got 26.8 mpg.