Honda:Honda Insight hybrid was an "unmitigated disaster"

Couldn't agree more. I just do not get the CRZ at all. It's a complete fiasco.

I have looked at current gen Insights and they are certainly expensive. If i was seriously looking at a second hybrid now and didn't want to foot the 20k+ for a Prius I'd look at an insight. They get worse mileage, are a bit more rinky dink, etc. but they are definitely a lot cheaper and still pull low 40's mpg.

 

Honda Insight sales surging in U.S. — Autoblog Green

This is interesting...

 

The engine is undersized in relation to the sporty package, similar to how the CR-Z's engine's underpowered. The 187hp HSD would have gone better with the more aggressive looks of the CT200h. Wonder why Toyota didn't put the bigger HSD into the ct200h instead ?

 

Wouldn't it be perfect for your parents in the crowded Italien cities?

 

The proper way to look at this is that both the Insight and Prius increased by similar amounts. I wonder if the quake hit Toyota more than Honda, I think maybe it did--all I really seemed to hear about in the news were toyota and nissan production. The Insight is not a bad car, it's just got to be sold for much cheaper than the Prius to be worth it. At this time it seems it is. I would consider one given their much lower price.

 

Yea, the Insight is probably getting the Prius sales due to inventory issue.

 

Because the ct200h was designed for Europe not the US and Toyota/Lexus wanted a luxury car under 100g CO2 barrier to get free road tax and congestion charge exemption in London. Originally the US wasn't going to take the ct200h and then they changed their minds.

With that in mind I suspect Lexus could launch a ct300h later (or they have an option too).

 

The Insight II is not bad at all sitting in the front seats - it's a lot like a Civic up there. Problem occurs when you try to squeeze in the back - it's cramped.

Honda is hog-tied with the IMA system - they end up with smaller cars that get less economy than Prii, but only a couple or so thou less. People are very willing to spend the extra couple grand for Prius. Honda needs to go full power split hybrid.

 

I must have meant "inexpensive"

Yeah it's kind of a piece of crap really. It mean it's better than nothing but they really do need to get rid of it.

 

The HSD works well in the Prius, no doubt about that.

Whether the HSD architecture works well for something like a Corolla is still debatable in my opinion. We know how well the Civic IMA works but there's no Corolla HSD to compare with yet.
Is that in Toyota's roadmap ?

 

Totally disagree with this.

A low cost solution for increasing fuel economy in a mass market vehicle (e.g. Civic,Corolla,Accord,Camry) has its place in the marketplace.

 

Interesting, I wonder if that's what happened to the Cr-z as well.

 

I see no chance of that with the Prius family soon including the c.

 

If it works in the Camry, I imagine it'd work in the Corolla. The Camry's mpg improvement over base model (9/3 mpg) doesn't match the Civic improvement (15/7), but I think the Camry's focus for hybrid improvement was more on performance than mpg. Can't find their 0-60 ratings though.

Less of a need for a hybrid Corolla, the advantage of a Corolla over a Prius is that the purchase price is cheap. Add HSD to it, and you have basically a slightly less expensive Prius but with a smaller cabin, kinda like the Honda Insight.

Their road map is to build the Prius v, then the Prius c - the compact car. They won't need a hybrid Corolla with this range of Prius options.

Oops - got distracted while composing this, I see skoorbmax said the same thing but much more concisely.

 

But they have a Corolla hybrid - its the Auris HSD which is pretty much a Corolla in all but name. It was named the Corolla here until they changed the name on the latest generation. [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Auris]Toyota Auris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

It uses the same hybrid system as the Prius so could probably be easily modified (bumpers, minor tweaks here and there) to allow use in USA and Canada.

 

Consumer Reports - Fuel economy vs. performance has 0-60 mph times and CR overall mileage figures for HyCam and regular Camry.

 

I read a guy on an Australian car blog (in the comments section) referr to IMA as a glorified Stop/Start system, which is largely true. What does IMA do that GM's E-Assist, Smart's MHD & Peugeot's e-HDI dont do? They all cut the engine under 10km/h, all have mild assist on acceleration. Sure they a physically and mechanically different, yet those three stop/start systems are cheaper and arguably equally effective. Even normal, less powerful stop start systems on many European cars are pretty effective, with far less cost involved than IMA.

Honda needs to ditch IMA

 

Thanks, but that was actually GrumpyCabbie...but I don't mind getting associated with him

If the new Yaris ends up not costing a fortune and have fuel ratings between 3 and 3.5L/100km it will become a compelling reason, private life permitting (i.e. usage of car), to trade in the Prius and getting one.

But if the fuel prices are continuing to go up this way (9$/gal now - I read yesterday that Denmark/Norway are at about 10.5$/gal - 1.86€/L) without any EU government willing to stop draining citizen's pockets with (about) 60% taxes on the price and the VAT on top of it, maybe walking and biking and public transportation will become a more compelling solution than any other car (for the commute)...but it cannot go on like this forever, considering that there is no real reason behind it - there is plenty of oil on the market - plenty.